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From Siegfried Goeschl <sgoes...@gmx.at>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] real-time communications
Date Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:32:18 GMT
Hi folks,

could you stop believing in a conspiracy taking place at the Apache Isis 
incubator project where a bunch of Isis member plus a few obscure 
mentors are trying to subvert the Apache Software Foundation by having a 
Skype session?!

Get real - some of the concerns are justified and well understood but 
this is it as far as I'm concerned.

But if Dan Haywood organizes a Skype meeting to introduce the committers 
and explains the Isis architectures than this is a good thing and I'm 
still supporting it. And as mentioned before - feel free to participate 
at Apache Isis to have your own opinion instead of showing signs of 
knee-jerk repulsion.

Cheers,

Siegfried Goeschl
Apache Isis Mentor

On 11/24/10 9:06 PM, Upayavira wrote:
> There's something we need to watch out for here about how the incubator
> works. The incubator is a place for podling members to learn, and
> learning is something *they* do. Our part is to provide encouragement
> and guidance as appropriate, and to allow podlings to make mistakes.
> That is an important part of learning.
>
> I sometimes feel we can be a bit to heavy handed on this list. Sure,
> give folks the benefit of our experience. But there's nothing like
> someone shouting at you for feeling excluded from a decision to make you
> realise that that conference call was not a good idea.
>
> In the end, the point of judgement is at the point of attempting
> graduation. Before that, we need to give podlings the space to learn,
> and that involves giving them the space to push the bounds of our
> community taboos (realtime comms, svn vs git, etc, etc). That's how
> folks really learn stuff, not just by being told something again and
> again.
>
> Upayavira
>
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:13 -0500, "Noel J. Bergman"<noel@devtech.com>
> wrote:
>>> The premise of this discussion is that running Apache projects are
>>> *permitted* to engage in real-time communications, so long as they
>>> take due care to avoid community problems of exclusion and closed
>>> decision making.
>>
>> Did you see Greg's e-mail?
>>
>> "Just bring a summary of discussion points back to the list, along with
>> any recommendations.  The list can then sort through it and make
>> decisions."
>>
>> Decisions are not made except on the mailing lists.  If it starts to seem
>> that people are being excluded from being an effective part of a decision
>> process, curtail or modify the back-channel communications.
>>
>>> We all want strong communities that are inclusive and open. We all recognize
that real-time communications pose risks to that.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> FWIW, ApacheDS and Geronimo had (possibly still have) *very* active IRC
>> channels (logged) where people talked in real-time, just as they might at
>> a Hack-a-Thon.
>>
>> 	--- Noel
>>
>>
>>
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