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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: [ISIS] Re: Conference call
Date Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:54:39 GMT
By definition, ANY such meeting will exclude some people; it's just the
nature of the beast. Anyone not in that timezone either will not be
able to attend or will need to go out of their way to attend. As
such, it is *very* easy to disenfranchise large groups of people,
esp if the Skype chat is seen as "the place" to discuss ISIS.

Your generic comment about "individuals like to communicate during
long & lonely nights in front of the keyboard" is also off the mark
as well... Some do, sure, but not all. Again, this sends a signal that
if you want to be part of ISIS you need to fall into that group. Not
a good way to build a diverse community.

On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Siegfried Goeschl wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> open source projects are done by individuals. And individuals like to communicate during
long & lonely nights in front of the keyboard. And meeting the other ISIS developers is
difficult since the are spread around the globe.
> 
> So if the ISIS developer/users/mentors/community decide to run a regular Skype meeting
to meet each other electronically assuming
> 
> +) that the meeting is announced on the dev list
> 
> +) that we not exclude any interested party (apart from troll feeding)
> 
> +) that no official statement/vote is circumvented
> 
> than I don't see any good reason why someone could complain about it and/or impose rules
how to organize such a "come together".
> 
> Speaking as one of the participants
> 
> +) I was impressed by Dan's energy to organize the meeting
> 
> +) I was delighted that we were a dozen developers on Skype
> 
> *) I was glad to answer a few questions about the ASF (despite being seriously distracted
by my two daughters on my lap)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Siegfried Goeschl
> Apache ISIS Mentor
> 
> On 11/19/10 10:52 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>> 
>> On Nov 19, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
>> 
>>> A full transcription shouldn't be necessary.
>> 
>> I agree. Transcript is too strong for what I think needs to be done,
>> which is...
>> 
>>> Just bring a summary of
>>> discussion points back to the list, along with any recommendations.
>>> The list can then sort through it and make decisions.
>> 
>> What you said. Not a transcript but a list of topics and discussion
>> points which continue on list.
>> 
>> Craig
>>> 
>>> We have off-list discussions all the time (IM, IRC, in-person). We
>>> don't transcribe those. We just bring the discussion onto the list for
>>> wrapping it up with everybody present. Skype concalls are no different
>>> than these other forums.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> -g
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 13:18, Craig L Russell
>>> <craig.russell@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>> My $0.02:
>>>> 
>>>> The business of Apache is conducted on email.
>>>> 
>>>> It's fine to have a periodic conference call among interested project
>>>> participants, as long as (my list, not normative):
>>>> 
>>>> no project or community member is excluded (e.g. by posting the call
>>>> information only to a private list)
>>>> 
>>>> no decisions are made during the call
>>>> 
>>>> all topics discussed are subsequently posted via email to the project
>>>> members
>>>> 
>>>> Having an audio transcript is interesting but doesn't pass my email
>>>> test. So
>>>> I'd have to say that someone needs to transcribe the audio into email.
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 19, 2010, at 9:29 AM, James Carman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know about this. Whatever we do has to be trackable and
>>>>> "open", so I don't know about this Skype stuff. Requiring folks to
>>>>> watch a video or listen to an audio recording rather than reading a
>>>>> transcript is probably not a good idea. I'm copying the general list
>>>>> to see what others have to say.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Mohammad Nour El-Din
>>>>> <nour.mohammad@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good idea
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> +1 on the Skype monthly meeting.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Alexander Krasnukhin
>>>>>> <the.malkolm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> At least it makes me feel ISIS is really going somewhere. I don't
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to explain this. E.g. there are some real ALIVE people involved
:).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Monthly is good.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Mike Burton
>>>>>>> <mikeb@mycosystems.co.uk>wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes very useful interesting and enjoyable, thanks for organising
it.
>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>> monthly similar would be good.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2010, at 10:49, Dan Haywood <dkhaywood@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> First off, thanks to all for attending, and I really
enjoyed the
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> opportunity. Hope it was useful. It was nice, actually, to
read the
>>>>>>>> transcript on the Skype IM call afterwards (I didn't get
the oppo
>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> while I was demo'ing).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Second, my apols that I didn't have the demo working.
Of course,
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> the call finished I figured out the problem in about 2 minutes.
>>>>>>>> At any
>>>>>>>> rate, the details on running the demo for yourselves are
on the
>>>>>>>> "SmokeTest"
>>>>>>>> page on the wiki [1].
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Third, per a recording, like Kevin I also recorded the
call using
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> CallGraph, though mine seems to have recorded ok. It's about
92Mb,
>>>>>>>> recorded it in stereo, and what Skype did is distribute the
voices
>>>>>>>> across
>>>>>>>> the spectrum, which I think is quite nice. Anyway, I've just
>>>>>>>> uploaded
>>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>>> my dropbox account and I'll post the URL on isis-private.
(If you
>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>> subscribed there, contact me directly).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Lastly, it'd be nice to do a similar call like that now
and
>>>>>>>>> again. We
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> could perhaps set one up every month, attendance purely optional.
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/ISIS/smoketest.html
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 18/11/2010 20:08, Kevin Meyer - KMZ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for organizing the call.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I was not able to record the entire call - Of the
56 minutes
>>>>>>>>>> captured, a
>>>>>>>>>> lot of it is silence. I'm not sure if it is an issue
with the
>>>>>>>>>> app or
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, thanks to all who participated, it was good
to be able to
>>>>>>>>>> associate voices with the emails.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Alexander
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> - Mohammad Nour
>>>>>> Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User
>>>>>> Guide)
>>>>>> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
>>>>>> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
>>>>>> - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
>>>>>> moving"
>>>>>> - Albert Einstein
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself
a
>>>>>> professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less
>>>>>> than your best."
>>>>>> - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Stay hungry, stay foolish."
>>>>>> - Steve Jobs
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>> Architect, Oracle
>>>> http://db.apache.org/jdo
>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@oracle.com
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 
>> 
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Oracle
>> http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@oracle.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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