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From "Upayavira">
Subject RE: [DISCUSS] real-time communications
Date Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:06:26 GMT
There's something we need to watch out for here about how the incubator
works. The incubator is a place for podling members to learn, and
learning is something *they* do. Our part is to provide encouragement
and guidance as appropriate, and to allow podlings to make mistakes.
That is an important part of learning. 

I sometimes feel we can be a bit to heavy handed on this list. Sure,
give folks the benefit of our experience. But there's nothing like
someone shouting at you for feeling excluded from a decision to make you
realise that that conference call was not a good idea.

In the end, the point of judgement is at the point of attempting
graduation. Before that, we need to give podlings the space to learn,
and that involves giving them the space to push the bounds of our
community taboos (realtime comms, svn vs git, etc, etc). That's how
folks really learn stuff, not just by being told something again and


On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:13 -0500, "Noel J. Bergman" <>
> > The premise of this discussion is that running Apache projects are
> > *permitted* to engage in real-time communications, so long as they
> > take due care to avoid community problems of exclusion and closed
> > decision making.
> Did you see Greg's e-mail?
> "Just bring a summary of discussion points back to the list, along with
> any recommendations.  The list can then sort through it and make
> decisions."
> Decisions are not made except on the mailing lists.  If it starts to seem
> that people are being excluded from being an effective part of a decision
> process, curtail or modify the back-channel communications.
> > We all want strong communities that are inclusive and open. We all recognize that
real-time communications pose risks to that.
> +1
> FWIW, ApacheDS and Geronimo had (possibly still have) *very* active IRC
> channels (logged) where people talked in real-time, just as they might at
> a Hack-a-Thon.
> 	--- Noel
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