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From "Noel J. Bergman" <n...@devtech.com>
Subject RE: an experiment
Date Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:18:39 GMT
> I'd like to start experimenting with different organizational
> and procedural approaches to the projects I participate in
> here.  What I want to do is to see how far I can push
> the envelope on the whole notion of empowerment and
> self-governance in an incubating project, following the
> lessons I've learned from httpd's treatment of the subprojects
> it happens to be responsible for.

The reason for the existence of the PPMC is to help foster that
self-governance, but we must recognize two things.  One, the projects are
not yet entitled to full self-governance.  That's why they are in the
Incubator.  Two, the ASF Bylaws name *the* governing body for each project
as the PMC, which is required to provide oversight.


> The first idea should be fairly straightforward: that for
> the projects I participate in (so far thrift and sis), that
> the IPMC delegates to the PPMC the decision-making process
> for voting in new committers

-1

The PPMC has no legal or structural standing with the ASF.  Decisions are
made -- and required to be made -- by each project's PMC, as per the Bylaws.

If the PPMC has 3 or more PMC members, it should be capable of mustering the
necessary votes by virtue of those PMC members voting.

Now, if the ASF Board would like to approve a different behavior, I'd accept
that, but I don't believe that a PMC should take it on itself to skirt ASF
Bylaws, and we've tried very hard to structure the Incubator within them.

> The second idea is more controversial: to hold IPMC votes to
> admit all significant committers to those projects to the IPMC
> itself.  The purpose of this concept is to allow those who
> best know the codebase to provide IPMC oversight over it,
> especially as it pertains to releases.

-1

The Incubator PMC, unlike other PMCs, isn't preoccupied with the codebase;
it is about community.  And even with respect to code, we have far too much
experience with projects attempt to put out improper releases to abandon our
oversight obligations.

Again, if the PPMC has 3 or more PMC members, it should be capable of
mustering the necessary votes by virtue of those PMC members voting.

Have I repeated the "every Incubator project should have at least 3 PMC
members providing oversight" mantra enough, yet?

	--- Noel



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