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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: an experiment
Date Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:52:22 GMT
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

> a quick recap.

> an Incubator PMC member who was never involved in [the] community jumped
> the middle of a committer vote to vote -1.  Greg wrote a cranky email
> him to go away.  Most of the committers in SVN were taken aback by the
> "Who is this person? Why do they get to vote -1? "

Presumably there was no valid basis for the -1?  Sucks, but Joe's proposal
doesn't change the fact that any PMC Member can still vote on any project.
The ASF does not have subprojects, there is only one PMC.  We have gone
through this with Jakarta and XML over those issues.

> For OODT, we voted on a committer - but forgot to do the
> "pre-acknowledgement" and Chris got taken out to the
> woodshed by some members because we sent the "ack" *after*
> the vote.  Chris didn't go cranky, but I would have.

Perhaps we need to remind people that mistakes happen -- ESPECIALLY in the
Incubator -- and we need to extend courtesy and assistence, not
back-of-the-woodshed beatings.  And, as I just noted to Chris, I am all for
any streamlining that we can do, so long as it preserves PMC oversight.

> > And given that Subversion clearly (should have) had more
> > than 3 PMC members, how did it impact?

> after graduation, in Subversion, Greg has had to constantly reinforce that
> the Subversion PMC gets to make the decisions in the project and stop
> for others to set policy - as that's the (false) precedent set by the

I see what you are saying, but the issue is that ASF project policy is set
by its PMC, and until an Incubator project graduates, that PMC is the
Incubator PMC.  But we do try to allow the project a lot of leeway to
self-govern, which is why the PPMC exists in the first place.  And I'm
curious as to why Subversion folks got into a habit of looking elsewhere,
since the Subversion project pretty much *did* self-govern (having plenty of
PMC Members and ASF Members on the project) during its short Incubation.

	--- Noel

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