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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: Radical revamp (was: an experiment)
Date Tue, 17 Aug 2010 02:53:55 GMT
It's optimized for success while making mentors potentially responsible for failure (iow a
project with crappy mentors will fail no matter how much they grok apache).  Still have doubts
about escalating the graduation decision to the board.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Greg Stein <> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:31, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
----- Original Message ----

From: Noel J. Bergman <>
Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:00:40 PM
Subject: RE: Radical revamp (was: an experiment)

Greg Stein wrote:

Using  this model decentralizes the process

So does having 3+ PMC Members  today.

To me this is a common flaw in both how the IPMC operates today and how
Greg's proposal relies on 3 Members to get anything accomplished.  If
you've been paying attention to what actually happens in this PMC over
time,  you can't possibly have missed all the begging for votes that
goes on.

Reliance on 3 overworked people who are typically not podling committers
to always be there when the project needs them is both unrealistic and
doesn't scale.  We've been doing it for years, inflicting massive
pain on the podlings whenever they release or want new committers,
and it sucks.  That's what my experiment aims to fix.

I hear you, and I think that *if* you have 3+ *active* ASF Members,
then my approach will dramatically improve the process. Also, those
Members in the hot seat are going to be more active because they
*know* they're on the hook. There is nobody to "pass the buck" to.
They are part of the reports to the Board ("One of our PMC Members,
John Doe, has been absent."). If a project has the support, then this
gets the "second-guessing" of the IPMC and the second-level of
unnecessary "oversight" out of the way. It directly introduces the
project to its future place within the organization.


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