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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:10:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of "Make a Release" requirement for
  Incubator graduation
To: general@incubator.apache.org
In-Reply-To: <6cca3db30911101100k6566c43et39a827b3f7fd1fc2@mail.gmail.com>
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----- Original Message ----

> From: Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 11:00:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of "Make a Release" requirement for  Incubator graduation
> 
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:54, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> >> From: Luciano Resende 
> >> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> >> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 10:51:44 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of "Make a Release" requirement for 
>  Incubator graduation
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> >> > Hello IPMC,
> >> >
> >> > The Subversion podling would like a waiver of the requirement to make
> >> > a release before graduation.
> >> >
> >> > As we understand this requirement, it is present in order to
> >> > demonstrate to the podling how releases are made at the ASF.
> >> > Packaging, licensing, signing, placement into the distrubtion/mirror
> >> > system, announcements, among others[1]. We believe that the Subversion
> >> > community already has a deep understanding of the Apache release
> >> > model, based on the following qualifications of several of its
> >> > committers/mentors:
> >> >
> >>
> >> Should we hold this vote to actually graduation time ? Would it be
> >> better to spend some of these debating energy to actually setup the
> >> Subversion podling into the Apache infrastructure, as currently I see
> >> no mailing lists, svn code import, etc... create the proper Apache
> >> user accounts for the several new committers, etc and maybe still give
> >> a chance to add new contributors... before worrying about this...
> >
> > Agreed.  Starting the ball rolling by requesting a bunch of waivers is
> > personally off-putting and bureaucratic.  Something I'd like to see less
> > off in the Incubator.
> 
> /me shrugs
> 
> Releases are the topic of the day. I wanted to get that whole
> discussion behind us, and move onto something constructive.

I understand the rationale, but as others point out the request feels premature.  IMO this won't put anything to rest, as people who insist
on a release as an exit requirement will vote -1 twice now 
instead of once (for the graduation vote).

I support the needs you have outlined for the subversion project in
regards to domain names, etc. *because* the mentors are going to work
to push this thru the IPMC in record time.  If it turns out the mentors
fail in this effort I will be personally disappointed in them and more
reluctant to consider special cases for the Incubator in the future.
This does mean the mentors also need to gather consensus within the IPMC
as well as the Subversion project to agree on graduation concerns.  The
tactful approach is via early and open discussion, not formal preagreements.


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