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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Date Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:44:04 GMT
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:48, William A. Rowe, Jr. <> wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
>> The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
>> how to work here at Apache.
> I'm a little confused.  I'm reading a really long rant here, but I expect
> if you look at what nearly all mentors do in their respective podlings,
> this is exactly what they provide (granted, with wildly varying degrees
> of effort or attention).

And that is exactly what I'd like to do. But when the Incubator
*imposes* requirements of release that does not meet the project's own
quality guidelines, for an audience of zero, then I call that
"ridiculous make-work". That is my rant. That the Incubator-at-large
is imposing crap on the podling, rather than teaching the podling what
it means to be part of the ASF.

> Quite frankly, all svncorp releases could, with reasonable documentation
> [read: mailing list archives, CLA's and code grant] be licensed as ASF
> releases under the AL 2.0, irrespective of their internal artifact
> copyright statements.

I doubt it. Those old releases are signed tarballs. We can't "reach
in" and alter the LICENSE file without re-signing the whole tarball,
and I think that would be a very bad idea.

> A proviso that 1.7.0 won't be approved without running it through RAT,
> either pre or post graduation seems sufficient.  The process is better
> documented than 95% of ASF project release processes, so there's no issue.

RAT can be run right now, and the podling can work against its
results. No issue there. The *release* of "something" is my pain

And yes, the PMC that will manage the svn project can/should have a
responsibility to use RAT. But if you "make that rule", then you
better impose it upon every PMC here at the ASF. That's effectively
what you're saying :-)

> But ranting against your perception of Incubator's failure to EDUCATE and
> TEACH podlings how the ASF environment works is really quite disappointing,
> coming from you.

Look at the context. Being asked to throw together some bits for a
"release". Oh, just any bits will do. But wait, since they aren't
quite proper, you don't really have to announce it to users. ... come
on, that is not education. That isn't teaching anybody anything.


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