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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: Insanity (of the release process)
Date Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:16:59 GMT
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Justin Erenkrantz <> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Leo Simons <> wrote:
>> Also, to be clear, as an IPMC member I spend quite a bit of time with
>> projects where I am not a mentor, casting (binding) votes on things
>> like their releases. I will continue to do that, inline with procedure
>> and policy and common sense. I'm pretty sure you're not really meaning
>> to question that :)
> This is where I think the Incubator has gone awry: the claim that you
> are an IPMC member implies that you have merit on a project (in the
> form of a binding vote) is false.

Not merit, just "binding vote". I agree that it sucks, but it is not
something where the incubator has "gone awry", it has _always_ been
messed up like this.

Here's what I understand:

1) Apache rule: all apache releases must be made by PMCs
2) Apache rule: a release needs at least 3 binding +1s and more +1s than -1s
3) from #1 and #2 it follows that all incubator releases must be made
by the incubator PMC
4) a lot of incubating projects have difficulty getting enough +1s, or
even any qualified help sorting out releases
5) from #3 and #4 it follows that a lot of incubating projects get stuck
6) since #5 sucks rather badly, I and many others try and fill this
gap so projects can do some releases, attract some attention, gain
critical mass, and get out of here
7) we have further optimized by making the incubator PMC very very
large and by making it really easy (for ASF members) to get on the
incubator PMC, creating a large pool of potential voters.

If you see a way to fix this mess, please do. I suspect rule #1 is the
whopper that is just quite hard to get around and from it follows a
lot of other mess. I don't know exactly where that rule comes from,
but it is very old and it has always seemed very solid, too. IANAL.



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