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From Robert Burrell Donkin <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Aries proposal for incubation
Date Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:50:52 GMT
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Niclas Hedhman <> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Bill Stoddard <> wrote:
>> I am having a really difficult time getting my head around Jim and Niclas'
>> objections that this is an umbrella project.
> I think Jim came up with a good lithmus test; "If it is unclear what
> should NOT go into a project..."
> So, when I read the proposal the second time, my interpretation is
> that there is no actual boundary, other than perhaps "OSGi". If it was
> "only specs", then I would support Richard's notion that the community
> should work towards Felix sub-project (which was a sore point), but
> the scope is "enterprise OSGi", which is just about as wide as it
> gets. Perhaps the group as such has much better ideas on what they
> mean, fair enough, but then *I* would like to see it in the proposal.
> After all, it is very common around here that the proposal will become
> the basis for the project charter (if any), so *I* think it is better
> to address this early (and often ;-) )...

it is not conventional here to insist on a set exit strategy before a
proposal is approved. perhaps this innovation is one that should be
considered but IMHO it's not really workable to do that this late in
the acceptance process.

targeting an exit as a felix sub-project would require the aries
proposes to start again with approval from the felix proposal and so
on. it may also prove controversial.

i would also be worried about settling on exit as a felix sub-project
now. i'm a big felix fan and think it runs very well. but i think
there's a limit on how far it can scale without loosing it's
cohesiveness as a community. i would like see felix continue to act as
a home for cross cut OSGi components factored out of existing apache

if there are going to be a large number of new OSGi specs with a
distinctive "enterprise" identity (whatever that means) then i worry
that the felix project may find themselves flooded and lose direction.
i also worry that if no distinctive identity develops for "enterprise"
specifications then aries is going to have scope issues. i'm not sure
that this can be resolved right now: the specification process doesn't
seem mature enough yet. but i don't see this as a reason to tell aries
to come back later. code and community first.

i would expect that the project reports include detail on the
specifications they intend to implement and what progress has been
made towards a tight definition of "enterprise" (whether as a
distinctive group of specifications or a good description)

- robert

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