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From Guillaume Nodet <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Aries proposal for incubation
Date Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:10:05 GMT
I guess this is really a wording problem.  I don't think anyone is
thinking about bringing Geronimo, James, ServiceMix, CXF, Axis,
ActiveMQ or anything like that into Aries.  The real goal as it has
been said an OSGi Enterprise Programming Model, and the comparison
that has been made with Geronimo is not bad.  We already know it will
include some of the specs that comes from the OSGi Enterprise Expert
Group and that's why they have been mentioned.

Just keep the following sentences in mind:  "The Aries project will
deliver a set of pluggable Java components enabling an enterprise OSGi
application programming model. This includes implementations and
extensions of application-focused specifications defined by the OSGi
Alliance Enterprise Expert Group (EEG) and an assembly format for
multi-bundle applications, for deployment to a variety of OSGi based

The first sentence is the key one.  The second one just try to
explicit it by listing things that we know or think will be developed
in Aries.  Or at least, that Aries would need to define its
programming model.    Please read the relationship between Aries and
various other TLPs.  For example the OpenJPA section.  Aries doesn't
aim at implementing JPA, but it aims at integrating JPA into OSGi.  I
think the same would be true for JMS / ActiveMQ.   I think for each
technology Aries enables, we'll have first to develop this integration
layer, then if it makes more sense to contribute it back to another
TLP, it will be done.   I think that's how it should work.

It is what happened in other TLPs: Camel was first developed inside
ActiveMQ but moved to TLP because it did not really fit in ActiveMQ.
Felix Karaf has originally been developed inside ServiceMix for its
use, but given it was not really tied to ServiceMix, nor in the real
scope of the project, it has been moved as a Felix subproject.

Just let us create the community and I'm sure it will find a good way
to nicely cooperate with other TLPs.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 13:26, Niclas Hedhman <> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Robert Burrell Donkin
> <> wrote:
>> targeting an exit as a felix sub-project would require the aries
>> proposes to start again with approval from the felix proposal and so
>> on. it may also prove controversial.
> You missed the point. It is not about exit strategy, it is about "What
> belongs and/or not in Aries?". That question is answered in the
> proposal like "enterprise spec impl", but also "anything OSGi
> enterprisey", which I then claim includes he components for just about
> every single project (impl using OSGi) at the ASF. ServiceMix is using
> OSGi, so of course anything that can be componentized should be stuck
> into Aries. How about James? Are you guys in OSGi yet? So, your
> components go into Aries, right? How about Geronimo? WS-*?
> If the proposal is re-written to a more concise language of what the
> focus really is, then I gladly change my vote.
> Cheers
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> - New Energy for Java
> I  live here;
> I  work here;
> I relax here;
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Guillaume Nodet
Open Source SOA

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