incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Greg Brown <gkbr...@mac.com>
Subject Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
Date Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:28:55 GMT
Thanks, Niclas. Very appropriate material. This very clearly draws a  
distinction between the terms "leader" (as I have been attempting to  
use it) and "manager" (by which I would never describe myself).

IMO, successful projects (including those at ASF) need leadership, not  
"management". So describing myself, or any other committer, as a  
"leader" is not an attempt to assert authority or otherwise. It is  
simply a means of describing a level of committment.


On Aug 10, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:

> I have had a long chat with Greg, and I think I can somewhat
> understand his angle. Taken from Wikipedia;
>
>    * Management involves power by position.
>    * Leadership involves power by influence.
>
>    * Managers administer; leaders innovate.
>    * Managers ask how and when; leaders ask what and why.
>    * Managers focus on systems; leaders focus on people.
>    * Managers do things right; leaders do the right things.
>    * Managers maintain; leaders develop.
>    * Managers rely on control; leaders inspire trust.
>    * Managers have short-term perspective; leaders have long-term  
> perspective.
>    * Managers accept the status-quo; leaders challenge the status-quo.
>    * Managers have an eye on the bottom line; leaders have an eye on
> the horizon.
>    * Managers imitate; leaders originate.
>    * Managers emulate the classic good soldier; leaders are their  
> own person.
>    * Managers copy; leaders show originality.
>
> And with such backdrop, I think Greg is more of "Leader of the Race"
> than the "Nation's Leader", and we undoubtedly have many of those in
> various projects.
>
> The skill is to entice others to step up and become leaders (of the
> above definition) in their own right, and with asserting the negative
> notions of "leadership" such as Control.
>
>
> -- Niclas
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Greg Brown<gkbrown@mac.com> wrote:
>> Apologies. I'm fired up about another discussion on the pivot-dev  
>> list and
>> I'm letting it bleed over here.
>>
>> My assertion stands, though. I don't think that it is realistic to  
>> think
>> that any non-trivial project can be effectively guided without some  
>> concept
>> of leadership. Do others on this list share David's opinion? If so,  
>> how do
>> you think such projects should be managed?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Greg Brown wrote:
>>
>>> Ordinarily, I'd refrain from comment on a topic such as this. But  
>>> I think
>>> it's pretty unrealistic to consider any project, especially one of  
>>> Pivot's
>>> magnitude, to be practically fostered without any kind of  
>>> "leader". I don't
>>> claim authority, and I don't think that my vote counts any more  
>>> than anyone
>>> else's. However, I don't think *any* project is likely to be  
>>> successful
>>> without some kind of vision behind it, and, from my experience,  
>>> that's
>>> typically driven by a handful of individuals. Yes, there are lots  
>>> of other
>>> contributors without whom a project would not be successful. But  
>>> to say that
>>> there is no such concept as a "leading developer" is a fallacy.
>>>
>>> If that's an idea that's too foreign to the ASF, then perhaps Pivot
>>> doesn't belong here.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:15 PM, David Crossley wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a general comment to everyone. It is finally triggered
>>>> by this month's report from Pivot.
>>>>
>>>> There is no such concept at the ASF as "leading developer".
>>>>
>>>> Yes i know that the Jira issue tracker is misleading, as it has
>>>> an incorrect label on its interface: "Project Lead"
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/BrowseProjects.jspa
>>>> Some projects get around that by referring to "Xxx Developers".
>>>>
>>>> However today i am not really concerned about Jira. It is the
>>>> use of the term in board reports and such, that indicates an issue.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>
> I  live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> I  work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org


Mime
View raw message