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Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:13 -0700
Message-ID: <2f8a5bd60904241239x2c123fc2i4652cd97187452f7@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Click graduation
From: Will Glass-Husain <wglasshusain@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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I'd certainly be up for staying on Click's PMC and participating in
governance issues, if that was helpful.  I'm just not a user so have
not done any contributions.  (I'm certainly up for downloading code,
testing, and voting on releases).

WILL

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 07:46 -0700, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
>> Hi--
>>
>> I went away from email for half a day and got a ton of new messages!
>>
>> As a mentor to Click, I can attest that there's a small but active
>> community involved. =A0It's consistently operated in a transparent and
>> open manner. =A0There's been no signs of "dictatator for life" behavior.
>> =A0The founder of the project (Malcolm) is a frequent but not
>> heavy-handed presence on the lists. =A0Bob Schellink has overseen many
>> of the details of going through the incubation process. =A0 (and Naoki
>> Takezoe has consistently contributed as well). =A0Contributions and
>> discussion from a variety of contributors have been welcomed and
>> accepted.
>>
>> I note too that Malcolm has been part of the Velocity community for
>> some years with frequent feedback, bug reports, and occasional
>> patches.
>>
>> One issue that has come up is that none of the Mentors (myself
>> included) are users of Click (and hence not contributors). =A0It would
>> be nice if the PMC and committership were larger but there are
>> successful projects with small PMCs - Velocity has had 3-5 active PMC
>> members for some years now while successfully supporting a much large
>> user base. I agree with Andrus that there's an opportunity to reach
>> out to people more specifically, but such efforts do not magically
>> turn contributors into committers.
>>
>> We had some discussion about graduation (and the committer size
>> specifically) on the Click list between the mentors and the community.
>> =A0Our advice was essentially "go for it".
>>
>> Click's an innovative project with a small but open community. =A0The
>> core members clearly get the Apache Way. =A0And the size of the PMC,
>> while a concern, has potential to grow over time. =A0I vote +1.
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> Unfortunately, it also has the potential to shrink, which sends it
> straight into non-functionality.
>
> Firstly, I would like to know: has Click voted in any committers during
> its incubation? (I know I should really research that for myself...)
>
> Secondly, do the current mentors still feel positive about the project?
> If so, I'd have thought they'd want to continue to support the project
> over the coming year or so. If three mentors joined the PMC, that would
> give six members, which would be a significant buffer against sinking
> below the minimum three active members and would, I suspect, transform a
> lot of -1 votes into +1s.
>
> I know I stayed on both the Felix and the Wicket PMCs for some time
> after their graduation. Neither was hard work - all I needed to do was
> read a few emails, and perhaps do a little research occasionally. Not
> much to do for communities that I had come to appreciate.
>
> Upayavira
>
>
>
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