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Message-ID: <918312fe0812281644v50aa8251s88173ff61419dd32@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:44:45 +0100
From: "Martijn Dashorst" <martijn.dashorst@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept Cassandra into the Incubator
In-Reply-To: <9338f5ad0812271218r1e2e194ev286bf38490427bc5@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <49515FC1.9090109@holsman.net>
	 <9338f5ad0812270913r23946e7apc2eb385e8ef98659@mail.gmail.com>
	 <918312fe0812271126y6759f3a8ie39ca03abb5e49e7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <9338f5ad0812271218r1e2e194ev286bf38490427bc5@mail.gmail.com>

My concern is that though the original FB devs told that they wanted
to move to apache, they are (according to what I've read here) silent
again. The discussions on the original list did not show a trust in a
community without the Facebook devs.

Futhermore, from what I've read on the original lists is that the
original FB devs are accustomed to a code dump style of development.
I'd like to hear from them how they are going to open up their
development, or in the proposal how to mitigate such practices.

Martijn

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Brian McCallister <brianm@skife.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Martijn Dashorst
> <martijn.dashorst@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd like to see some plan on dealing with the fork/community stuff. We
>> *know* it is a problem, and I'd like to see how this is being
>> addressed in the proposal. In my opinion that is the crux to this
>> proposal. Just going Apache is not going to solve problems. The
>> feather is not a magic wand you can wave around and make problems
>> disappear.
>>
>> What will happen when the original coders won't come with the project?
>> What when they do and then disappear *again*? How will you get the
>> folks on board that don't want to come over?
>
> The "fork" was something proposed by Ian because there was no clear
> path for folks to become involved with Cassandra. The folks working on
> it at Facebook didn't want to see a fork, and proposed entering
> incubation in order to structure opening up development. Avinash and
> the others on the proposal *are* the core contributors, there is no
> fork, and hopefully there will be no need to.
>
> No one expects to wave a feather over the code and have a vibrant
> developer community appear, but you *can* wave a wand and have a set
> of expectations appear, which is what Cassandra is trying to do.
>
> The plan: follow the normal apache process. Folks contribute good
> stuff, the folks involved recognize this and make the contributor a
> committer, useful code continues to come into existence, rinse-repeat.
>
> The "plan" is no different than any apache project.
>
> -Brian
>
>>
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Brian McCallister <brianm@skife.org> wrote:
>>> I consider this to be a high-risk project, and agree with Martjin's
>>> concerns, but do not consider this a bar to entering incubation. The
>>> *reason* Cassandra wants to enter incubation is to address these
>>> weaknesses.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> -Brian
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Ian Holsman <lists@holsman.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Incubator PMC,
>>>>
>>>> There has been some discussion around the Cassandra proposal,
>>>> and we would now like to officially propose Cassandra to the Incubator
>>>> for consideration..
>>>>
>>>> Please vote on accepting Cassandra project for incubation. The full
>>>> Cassandra proposal is available at the end of this message and as a wiki
>>>> page at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Cassandra. We ask the
>>>> Incubator PMC to sponsor the Cassandra podling, with Brian as the Champion,
>>>> and Torsten, Matthieu, and Ian volunteering to mentor as well.
>>>>
>>>> The vote is open for the next 72 hours and only votes from the
>>>> Incubator PMC are binding.
>>>>
>>>> [ ] +1 Accept Cassandra as a new podling
>>>> [ ] -1 Do not accept the new podling (provide reason, please)
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> = Abstract =
>>>>
>>>> Cassandra is a distributed storage system for managing
>>>> structured/unstructured data while providing reliability at a massive scale.
>>>>
>>>> = Background =
>>>>
>>>> Development of Cassandra started in Facebook in June 2007. It started of a
>>>> system to solve the Inbox Search problem and since then has
>>>> matured to solve various storage problems associated with
>>>> structured/unstructured data.
>>>>
>>>> = Rationale =
>>>>
>>>> Cassandra is a distributed storage system for managing structured data that
>>>> is designed to scale to a very large size across many commodity servers,
>>>> with no single point of failure.
>>>> The philosophy behind the design of the storage portion of Cassandra is that
>>>> it be able to satisfy the requirements of applications that demand storage
>>>> of large amounts of structured data. Reliability at massive scale is a very
>>>> big challenge. Outages in the service can have significant negative impact.
>>>> Hence Cassandra aims to run on top of an infrastructure of hundreds of nodes
>>>>  (possibly spread across different datacenters). At this scale, small and
>>>> large components fail continuously; the way Cassandra manages the persistent
>>>> state in the face of these failures drives the reliability and scalability
>>>> of the software systems relying on this service.
>>>>
>>>> = Initial Source =
>>>>
>>>> Intial Source can be obtained from the following site -
>>>> http://the-cassandra-project.googlecode.com/svn/branches/development/. The
>>>> mailing list is currently maintained at the same site.
>>>> We will move it over to Apache once this proposal has been accepted.
>>>>
>>>> = Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan =
>>>>
>>>> = External Dependencies =
>>>> * All dependencies have Apache compatible licenses. Dependencies are log4j,
>>>> Thrift, Apache Commons.
>>>>
>>>> = Cryptography =
>>>> * None
>>>> = Committers =
>>>>
>>>> * Avinash Lakshman
>>>> * Prashant Malik
>>>> * Kannan Muthukkaruppan
>>>> * Jiansheng Huang
>>>> * Dan Dumitriu
>>>>
>>>> = Current Status =
>>>> == Meritocracy ==
>>>>
>>>> * Though initial development was done at Facebook, Cassandra was intended to
>>>> be released as an open source project from its inception. Environment will
>>>> lend itself to support meritocracy at all times.
>>>>
>>>> == Community ==
>>>> * Folks who are actively considering deploying/prototyping Cassandra in
>>>> their respective organizations.
>>>>
>>>> == Core Developers ==
>>>> * Avinash Lakshman
>>>> * Prashant Malik
>>>> * Kannan Muthukkaruppan
>>>>
>>>> == License ==
>>>> * The Cassandra codebase is Apache 2.0 licensed, and currently hosted at
>>>> Google Code.
>>>> = Known Risks/Avoiding the Warning Signs =
>>>>
>>>> == Orphaned Products ==
>>>> * Cassandra is already deployed within Facebook and many other organizations
>>>> are actively moving to deploy this in production. Original developers
>>>> are and will actively stay involved and hence there is no realistic chance
>>>> of it getting orphaned.
>>>>
>>>> == Homogenous Developers ==
>>>> * The current list of committers includes developers from different
>>>> companies. The committers are geographically distributed across the U.S.
>>>>
>>>> == Reliance on Salaried Developers ==
>>>> * Yes. But don't expect this to be a risk of any nature.
>>>>
>>>> == Relationships with Other Apache Products ==
>>>> * The Cassandra project is 'similar' to hbase/HDFS in concept, but Cassandra
>>>> is more geared for Online web site usage than batch. It also doesn't have a
>>>> single point of failure, which makes it interesting as well.
>>>>
>>>> * Cassandra makes use of the Thrift project.
>>>>
>>>> == An excessive fascination with the Apache brand ==
>>>> * Cassandra has already attracted a stable base of users. There are at least
>>>> 3 companies who are planning to use Cassandra in production as far as we
>>>> know. The reasons for joining Apache are not to advertise the project, but
>>>> rather to demonstrate the commitment to open source by divorcing the trunk
>>>> from any one corporation and pursuing further integration with other Apache
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>> = Required Resources =
>>>> == Mailing lists ==
>>>>
>>>>  Once the project is approved, the following mailing lists will be used for
>>>> discussion.
>>>>  * cassandra-user@incubator.apache.org
>>>> <mailto:cassandra-user@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>> == Subversion Directory ==
>>>>
>>>>  *[WWW] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/cassandra    == Issue
>>>> Tracking ==
>>>>
>>>> * JIRA Cassandra
>>>>
>>>> = Sponsors =
>>>>
>>>> == Champion ==
>>>> * Brian McCallister    == Mentors ==
>>>> * Torsten Curdt    * Brian McCallister
>>>> * Matthieu Riou
>>>> * Ian Holsman
>>>>
>>>> == Sponsoring Entity ==
>>>> * Incubator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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