From general-return-20942-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Sat Dec 20 06:30:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 98638 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2008 06:30:58 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 20 Dec 2008 06:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 57722 invoked by uid 500); 20 Dec 2008 06:30:56 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 57551 invoked by uid 500); 20 Dec 2008 06:30:56 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 57540 invoked by uid 99); 20 Dec 2008 06:30:56 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:30:56 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of hedhman@gmail.com designates 74.125.44.152 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.44.152] (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.152) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:30:48 +0000 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 36so513660yxh.0 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:30:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=xMoO5Cuj1zdtQgcXfUysF+tN8VWEGe+V+PzYvCmTn9U=; b=HxN10Li86ui78nOQXZiUSIN6bUwH+qzk9v9tyVl8gRuJwb894YCtAkJ67ZbupgDQG6 SedOzFPgoUN/tGr5wbqpQlmXhwU9fCDsXvv3PMnvUdYhrZDoVZMMEr//db7wNHd1edO6 l2iGr/6uOIHjllQGjrAQ8EQL8y48NgWim3Og8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=HNtEYkUwjAfUGUXEi3hHd+zzuUh7AdL3XjtZKT0h2bQe3+/i5Y/N/w5/uWJptwt60j dniTY7wx0MiR9VrJmpbLsCSqiprCY4oiWA34xklSMB17eoTs5Ja2SBVK99B32jVRGDka S81z2KxkuR/hzGE6fuS5qjm7BibTK+MGvzm8Q= Received: by 10.100.94.14 with SMTP id r14mr2741392anb.68.1229754627527; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.242.15 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:30:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:30:27 +0800 From: "Niclas Hedhman" Sender: hedhman@gmail.com To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Pivot Proposal In-Reply-To: <494C568A.2040301@apache.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <65717460617662475270289382673437971446-Webmail@me.com> <494C568A.2040301@apache.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d9f7354f5551b3f3 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Simone Gianni wrote: > Good examples are many Google apps that display the complete > layout even if they are still loading in the background, giving the user > the feeling that everything loaded quickly, while it is still loading in > the background. I'm pretty sure this can be achieved with applets as well. Having deployed "heavy" Java applications on clients via both Applet and JNLP/WebStart (preferred!), I can vouch that it only takes a little bit extra effort to have the Java app showing 'something' within a second or so, and loading the rest of the app in your own bootstrap controlled classloader. Also, I have been involved in the preview and recommendations to how to present this proposal to the Incubator, and it didn't strike me that one should need to spend to compare with JSF, GWT and other non-Java solutions, when JavaFX is the main 'competitor' and reading up any paper on "Why JavaFX, instead of X?" would apply here. But then, perhaps I just got carried away with my own enthusiasm. Noel's points are otherwise accurate and precise, and I am sure Greg and Todd will address this asap. Other feedback is of course welcome early, otherwise there was supposed to be a [Proposal] thread later on, perhaps after the holidays... Noel kind of short-circuited the intentions :o) Cheers Niclas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org