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From "Mankovskii, Serge" <>
Subject RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Date Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:41:52 GMT
Hi Sanjiva,

It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
Niblett for a while as well!

It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
do that. Can you help us there?

Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
everybody would be able to use it. 

Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [] 
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
Cc: Mankovskii, Serge;;;
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects

Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to 
graduation first :).

Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for

If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
another; just trying to understand the relationship.

Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the

ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the 
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that


What does "reference implementation" mean?

[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]


Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules  other than core stuff under Axis2.
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>> thanks,
>> dims
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <> wrote:
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> We looked into the
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
>>> work in the future.
>>> Poloka ( could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>> -       Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
>>> notification consumer
>>> -       Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>> -       Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>       - Broker support
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>       - Subscription
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>> -       Matching performance
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
>>> research done by the PADRES
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>> What do you think?
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>> Regards
>>> Serge

Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation;
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;
Member; Apache Software Foundation;
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa;


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