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From "James Dixson (jadixson)" <jadix...@cisco.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] Etch
Date Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:28:57 GMT
Simple put: a name change is work. Before I can accept the need to do
work, I want to clearly understand the benefits of doing it.

Etch, while new to open-source, does have some awareness in a technical
community ( http://developer.cisco.com/web/cuae ). We have been publicly
pitching and distributing etch in our community for several months now.
People have been using the technology and for our current community Etch
!= Debian. Granted, a couple of months is a short amount of time, but it
is something. Imposing a name change on our current community, with the
reasoning that the future community, would be unable to differentiate
between "Apache Etch" and the etch release Debian, would be disruptive.

So I am reluctant to change the name, because 'Etch' is a name that has
meaning and association with the community into which we have introduced
it. 

I am willing to support a name change, I really am. I just need a
stronger argument than 'some people may be confused'. It does not track
with my current experience.

Are there examples from pass incubations where a name was changed upon
acceptance even though there was a community/history behind the name
beforehand?


---
James 

-----Original Message-----
From: Otis Gospodnetic [mailto:otis_gospodnetic@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:16 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch

http://www.google.com/search?&q=etch     --  12MM hits for an unreleased
product (this Etch)
http://www.google.com/search?&q=hadoop -- < 600K hits for a product
that's been out for over a year

Why such resistance to name change?  There is this proverb that might be
suitable here.  The loose translation is:
When one person tells you you are a donkey, ignore him.  When two people
tell you you are a donkey, go buy yourself a saddle."

Otis
--
Sematext -- http://sematext.com/ -- Lucene - Solr - Nutch



----- Original Message ----
> From: Scott Comer (sccomer) <sccomer@cisco.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 2:50:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch
> 
> Doug is a wise man and that is how we picked the name etch 18 month
ago.
> 
> Scott out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:     Otis Gospodnetic [mailto:otis_gospodnetic@yahoo.com]
> Sent:    Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
> To:    general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject:    Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch
> 
> Doug Cutting has a few nice and short naming rules that I liked when I
read 
> them.  I believe one of them was that a Google search for the proposed
name 
> should yield very few matches.  Hadoop and Lucene are/were good
examples of 
> that.  Here is another naming example.  I created this bookmarking
service 
> called "simpy" - simpy.com .  Great name - short, memorable, easy to
spell, etc. 
> people said.  The problem with it is that "simpy" is a common
misspelling of 
> "simply".  So, another thing to keep in mind.
> 
> 
> Otis
> --
> Sematext -- http://sematext.com/ -- Lucene - Solr - Nutch
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: James Dixson (jadixson) 
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:03:28 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Etch
> > 
> > I have heard the name concern a couple of times now...
> > 
> > When we picked the name Etch about 18 months ago, we knew about the
> > Debian release, but frankly we were unconcerned. Debian etch is the
name
> > of a release of Debian, no different than "4" being a release of
Fedora.
> > Eventually Debian etch will fade into memory just as sarge and woody
> > have.
> > 
> > Etch, in our line of thinking (if it could be said we were doing any
> > thinking :-) ) was the name we were giving to the technology, not a
> > release. There were no other technologies named Etch or similar, so
we
> > declared victory and moved on. 
> > 
> > So I guess my question back to everyone is this:
> > 
> >    What is the concern about the name Etch, really?
> > 
> > 1. Is there a legal trademark issue or a formal Apache branding
policy
> > issue with using the name Etch such that the use of the name is
simply
> > not going to be allowed.
> > 
> > - or -
> > 
> > 2. Is there a concern that during incubation, we might have to be
> > explicit in communication and always say "Apache Etch" rather than
just
> > "Etch" because of a fear that a reference to "Etch", taken out of
> > context, could be confused with Debian 4.0?
> > 
> > If "1" is true then, absolutely the name should be changed.
> > 
> > But if only "2" is true, then I will need a bit more convincing. I
am
> > after all very, very lazy and changing the name of a working toolset
is
> > well... work :-)
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > James Dixson
> > Manager, Software Development
> > CUAE Engineering, Cisco Systems Inc.
> > Direct: 512-336-3305
> > Mobile: 512-968-2116
> > james.dixson@cisco.com
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Niklas Gustavsson [mailto:niklas@protocol7.com] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:33 PM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch
> > 
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:16 PM, James Dixson 
> > wrote:
> > > This a proposal to enter Etch in to the incubator.
> > >
> > > See http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/EtchProposal for updates.
> > 
> > +1 for incubation (non-binding). While I find this area to be a bit
> > overcrowded lately, having both Etch and Thrift at Apache and
Protocol
> > buffers under ASL 2.0 does offer some interesting opportunities for
> > competition as well as cooperation.
> > 
> > I do share the concerns about naming conflicts. Debian is by far
more
> > well known and trying to establish this project under a conflicting
> > name would be hard.
> > 
> > /niklas
> > 
> >
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> > 
> > 
> >
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> 
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