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From Mikeal Rogers <mik...@mozilla.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Windmill
Date Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:00:16 GMT
Of those 3 it's the most like Selenium.

As far as I know the "proxy spoof" method was pioneered by Selenium  
and we've continued to use/evolve that method of "tricking" the  
browser's same domain security policy. Our implementation of the test  
API has been very different from selenium as is our proxy <->  
javascript communication workflow.

Since our initial release we've done a lot of feature work around the  
recording, debugging, and test editing workflows. We've also done a  
good amount of work both in the proxy and in the javascript layer to  
make having a single test move around different target domains remain  
seamless and transparent.

It's been a while since I used Selenium so I can't comment on their  
current feature list compared to ours, but at the time we decided to  
write Windmill we were incredibly frustrated with the process of  
maintaining tests written in Selenium in an environment where the  
target product changed rapidly. We found that debugging and editing a  
test after changes to the product to be as difficult as writing the  
entire test all over again from scratch and have continued to improve  
windmill around our own use cases as well as user community feedback.

I hope that answers your question, this was a fairly high level  
answer, if you'd like I can go over any of those features/differences  
in more detail and point you at any code.

-Mikeal

On Aug 14, 2008, at August 14, 20081:40 PM, Les Hazlewood wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, where does this fit in versus, say, Selenium,  
> MaxQ,
> Canoo WebTest, and others?
>
> There's nothing wrong if Windmill does the same stuff - I'm just  
> curious
> what it can do in comparison.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Les
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Mikeal Rogers <mikeal.rogers@gmail.com 
> >wrote:
>
>> This is a proposal to enter the incubator.
>>
>> See http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WindmillProposal for the most
>> up-to-date version.
>>
>> We look forward to comments and discussion.
>>
>> = Abstract =
>>
>> The goal of Windmill is to build the best tool for automated  
>> testing of
>> dynamic Web applications across all major browsers.
>>
>> = Proposal =
>>
>> Windmill provides a full-stack automation solution for dynamic
>> Web-application testing.
>>
>> It accomplishes this by implementing an extensive test API in  
>> JavaScript,
>> and providing an intelligent proxy that can overcome the browser's
>> same-domain security policy. The test API allows a single test to  
>> run on
>> every major browser across all major operating systems.
>>
>> Windmill boasts a wide range of debugging and test-authoring tools  
>> that
>> make test writing, debugging, and editing a more streamlined process.
>>
>> = Background =
>>
>> Windmill was created at the Open Source Applications Foundation by  
>> Mikeal
>> Rogers and Adam Christian to test the Chandler Server Web UI. It was
>> announced more broadly at OSCON 2007 and has since enjoyed a wide  
>> range of
>> use and contributions.
>>
>> In January 2008, all the full-time, paid contributors from OSAF  
>> moved on to
>> other employment. The project has since retained steady  
>> contribution despite
>> having no full-time, paid contributors.
>>
>> In July 2008, we proposed the project move its hosting away from OSAF
>> because of uncertainty about long term sustainability -- due to  
>> OSAF's
>> transition to a smaller-scale, mostly volunteer structure.
>>
>> = Rationale =
>>
>> Windmill was created to fulfill a need for a better dynamic Web- 
>> application
>> testing tool after much frustration with existing solutions. We  
>> believe it
>> has accomplished this goal and continues to improve, with ongoing,  
>> open
>> interaction with the community.
>>
>> What the project currently lacks is clear direction, leadership, and
>> process. We believe the project would benefit greatly from Incubator
>> mentorship, which would allow it to see much wider adoption, and  
>> grow a
>> broader community.
>>
>> = Current Status =
>>
>> == Meritocracy ==
>>
>> Since the project's inception, its development has been coordinated  
>> through
>> collaborative decision-making (e.g., "+1 voting") on the mailing  
>> list, and
>> open discussion on IRC.
>>
>> == Community ==
>>
>> Although the list of Core Developers has remained small we've  
>> welcomed
>> outside contributions. Along with a few small but good patches, we've
>> received some very good bugs and numerous features requests from the
>> community. Our wiki documentation is being continually improved by  
>> our
>> users.
>>
>> We also have a very good reputation of providing support and  
>> resolving
>> problems on IRC (#windmill on irc.freenode.net).A number of our  
>> users have
>> stayed around to help others in need.
>>
>> == Core Developers ==
>>
>> Mikeal Rogers (Most of the Python code)
>> Adam Christian (Most of the JavaScript code)
>>
>> == Alignment ==
>>
>> Since Windmill was started at OSAF, it has enjoyed contributions  
>> from a
>> variety of paid staff at OSAF. All of those employees are now  
>> employed
>> elsewhere -- below are the ones that are still active.
>>
>> * Mikeal Rogers (Mozillla)
>> * Adam Christian (Slide)
>> * Matthew Eernisse (Seesmic)
>>
>> = Known Risks =
>>
>> == Orphaned Products ==
>>
>> The project has survived the loss of paid contributions and  
>> continues to
>> grow in use, despite a clear lack of leadership (I have only myself  
>> to
>> blame).
>>
>> == Inexperience with Open Source ==
>>
>> All the contributors have a history in open-source development and  
>> the
>> policies of the project were developed with the help of Ted Leung.
>>
>> == Reliance on Salaried Developers ==
>>
>> As of July 2008 one developer is paid part-time for his work on  
>> Windmill.
>> The rest of the contributions are all volunteer at this time.
>>
>> == A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ==
>>
>> One can't ignore the impact the Apache brand has on a project, but  
>> what
>> this project needs isn't branding -- it's the benefit of Incubator
>> mentorship, direction, leadership, and process.
>>
>> = Documentation =
>>
>> http://windmill.osafoundation.org/
>>
>> = Initial Source =
>>
>> The code is currently hosted on OSAF's Subversion server.
>>
>> http://svn.osafoundation.org/windmill/
>>
>> = Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan =
>>
>> We've gotten consent from OSAF to move the project to new location.
>>
>> = External Dependencies =
>>
>> We have a long list of external Python dependencies. These  
>> dependencies are
>> managed via setuptools and are not distributed with the Windmill  
>> product and
>> as such should not need be a licensing concern.
>>
>> = Required Resources =
>>
>> == Mailing lists ==
>>
>> * windmill-commits
>> * windmill-dev
>> * windmill-users
>>
>> == Subversion Directory ==
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/windmill
>>
>> == Issue Tracking ==
>>
>> JIRA Windmill
>>
>> = Initial Committers =
>>
>> * Mikeal Rogers
>> * Adam Christian
>> * Matthew Eernisse
>>
>> = Sponsors =
>>
>> == Champion ==
>>
>> Ted Leung
>>
>> == Nominated Mentors ==
>>
>> * Ted Leung
>>
>>
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>>
>>


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