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Message-ID: <19e0530f0807080307r7fa40002r4e746e414d4c0de4@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 06:07:58 -0400
From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Do we really need an incubator?
In-Reply-To: <f767f0600807072251j30fb5dcej15be286498c2c03d@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <19e0530f0807071409t310c9d4bn99d7ba368acc1d60@mail.gmail.com>
	 <f767f0600807072251j30fb5dcej15be286498c2c03d@mail.gmail.com>

Understood. Taking a bit out of the email:

"
Such a dependency might be made somewhat invisible by transitive
dependencies on incubating projects, but the problem is exactly the
same if a non-incubating project depends on GPL stuff transitively.
That's a Maven problem, not an incubator problem.
"

So, why are we trying to fix a mistake in the tool?

thanks,
dims

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Dims,
>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry...Need to take this off my chest before the official VOTE.
>
> Thanks for this.
>
>> ...Looking at the maven repo thread, begs the question. Do we really need
>> an incubator?
>>
>> Isn't it just a IP Clearance SVN now once people have their way with
>> no distinction at all between incubator and non-incubator code?...
>
> It took me a few seconds to understand your concern, I had never
> thought about it like that before.
>
> I don't think putting incubator artifacts in the main Maven repository
> removes all distinction between incubator and non-incubator code. If
> we require incubator artifacts to have "-incubating" in their version
> names, that's perfectly clear.
>
> Such a dependency might be made somewhat invisible by transitive
> dependencies on incubating projects, but the problem is exactly the
> same if a non-incubating project depends on GPL stuff transitively.
> That's a Maven problem, not an incubator problem.
>
> Currently, one has to explicitely check their complete dependency tree
> to sure about what their code uses, when working with Maven. Or use
> private repositories exclusively, with controlled addition of
> artifacts. That's not in any way an incubator problem.
>
> To answer your question, to me the value of the incubator is as much
> in creating communities as in creating clean code. Having been a
> mentor of Wicket, I think this is a perfect example of a community
> that already worked quite well, but needed some mentoring to ease into
> the Apache way, and I think the results were very successful.
>
> Other projects don't incubate as well, especially now that the
> incubator has grown larger with relatively few people (IMHO) taking
> care of the health of the incubator at large.
>
> To me this means that a few things need to be fixed in the incubator -
> like reducing bureaucracy to a minimum while avoiding losing track of
> incubating projects, making docs more consistent and minimalistic, and
> making sure companies do not hijack their way into the ASF via the
> incubator.
>
> That doesn't mean we don't need an incubator, quite the contrary in my
> opinion: we need a stronger and more fun incubator.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com

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