From general-return-18887-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue Jul 08 11:09:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 25522 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 11:09:37 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 11:09:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 47105 invoked by uid 500); 8 Jul 2008 11:09:36 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 46935 invoked by uid 500); 8 Jul 2008 11:09:35 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 46924 invoked by uid 99); 8 Jul 2008 11:09:35 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:09:35 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of bdelacretaz@gmail.com designates 209.85.146.183 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.146.183] (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:08:44 +0000 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so1752660waf.6 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=WJu1K3tvC3xUMVdhofxDO3jR3xHFn0br7faUua81xE0=; b=uPT624PCBrWOtsUwtrz/zJm7tk2GzgX1+zsbVfvKmCZQaTBvAYnXh2HaaKUuUJYH8Q PhyPvypeqkHxNsECRq5vScBip1iXP8Q8As5W3tJrnP5vjwCmXMUm5Kidv043T2E0MmTH F7pFKji09yQqTsIjZUGtTzYlx7dZJr8w55YE4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=xgpYQHc4I56j8OVCpUunLnK6QP67m3BuJA52IObL11ppK/RANg4zWFLTHh16xSBwRH 9CFBYrPaLPfTAnSs1pOZ2Sk/G4MRFkRuZ/8dBKCJGvo8HJ2f6yTu25P3Z37NP8OF1RyC Et6O6PKcZoOngE1uPRVRsm0gszjwG1d033IWY= Received: by 10.114.148.1 with SMTP id v1mr469161wad.21.1215515346755; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.196.15 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:09:06 +0200 From: "Bertrand Delacretaz" Sender: bdelacretaz@gmail.com To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Do we really need an incubator? In-Reply-To: <19e0530f0807080325k44ccf970y51a5a76333a69f2c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <19e0530f0807071409t310c9d4bn99d7ba368acc1d60@mail.gmail.com> <19e0530f0807080325k44ccf970y51a5a76333a69f2c@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 285ecc861b82b2ea X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Hi Dims, On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: > ...Any PMC that ships incubator developed code is responsible for what > happens when a community does not form around the code base used. Any > one outside Apache that ships incubator code should be totally aware > of what they are getting into.... Agreed. > ...Bottom line, who ever used abdera code should do it consciously. I > agree that adding a second repo may be causing pain to the end users. > But this is for better or worse a "feature" because we don't have a > better way of doing this given the tools we have and the use cases the > tools are pushing on unsuspecting users :)... It might be a feature when someone has add the incubating repository to their configs the first time they need it, but after that any incubating artifacts might sneak in without people noticing it. People will add the incubating repository to their parent poms, and it will be mostly invisible after that. > ...So can we figure out another way to make the end user make a conscious > decision?... The final solution to this probably belongs in Maven, where the general case of "I want to approve any transitive dependency explicitely" should be solved. I'm not following Maven enough to know if that's on their todo list. > ...I doubt we will get much help from the maven team to support this use > case. They would rather get the central repo and get it done! What > bugs me is that in this whole discussion, no one even mentions how > easy it is to add another repo in the poms or the settings.... I agree that it is easy, but as explained above it probably only solves a small part of the problem, and some of us think that that's not worth the hassle. Add on top of that the varying perception of the quality and "Apacheness" of incubator releases, and you get the whole range of opinions about a separate repository, which we're seeing in this and other discussions. > ...Why can't people at least pretend to come up with some alternatives > rather than just chant "central repo!" :)... The central repository is very useful for Maven users, so I guess we want it to be as complete as possible. -Bertrand --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org