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From Henning Schmiedehausen <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Do we really need an incubator?
Date Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:15:25 GMT
On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 09:23 -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:

> And I am forced to agree as well... To be honest, I still at times
> question exactly the "relationship" between the ASF and Maven is.
> It's no surprise that Maven chomps at the bit quite a bit regarding
> ASF policies, but values the "Apache brand" enough to tow the
> line. But IMO it is time for the ASF to see how this is increasing
> the risk and potential for trouble with the whole foundation.

Uhm, can you give examples for "only values the brand"? While I had a
number of clashes with Maven people about the direction of the project,
I always found that every member of the Maven PMC that I ever worked
with and ever talked to, values Apache for what it is and how it works. 

The one thing that Maven PMC members are (and BTW many other members,
committers and contributes), is being deeply frustrated about is the
level of red tape and stop gaps that exist whenever anything that is not
"100% existing for years" technology at Apache is requested.

That is why the JIRA of Maven is at codehaus (because infra denied a
JIRA install at Apache for a long time), that is why other parts of the
infrastructure (e.g. the CI system) are at Codehaus (because infra did
not want to support these parts) and that is why sometimes people just
step ahead and *do* things (like the Contegix deal or registering instead of waiting for infra to catch up.

That is an *ASF* problem, not a Maven problem. *We* must staff our infra
group to be able to deal with the requests of PMCs that want more than
"some webspace to serve, subversion and a bugtracker". The inability of
infra to serve the demands of our PMCs is driving them slowly but surely
off-ASF. I can give you a number of people who stopped working at Apache
exactly for that reason.


Henning P. Schmiedehausen  -- | JEE, Linux, Unix
91054 Buckenhof, Germany   -- +49 9131 506540  | Apache Java Software
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design    | 

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