From general-return-18639-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Mon Jun 23 18:38:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 66509 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2008 18:38:13 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 23 Jun 2008 18:38:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 66544 invoked by uid 500); 23 Jun 2008 18:38:13 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 66283 invoked by uid 500); 23 Jun 2008 18:38:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 66272 invoked by uid 99); 23 Jun 2008 18:38:12 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:38:12 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=10.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.43.132] (HELO sca-es-mail-1.sun.com) (192.18.43.132) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:37:21 +0000 Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m5NIbPhh022303 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K2X00801HS92P00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for general@incubator.apache.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.241.238] ([192.18.41.196]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K2X00K35IECUP60@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:37:21 -0700 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: [VOTE] 72-hour lazy consensus for podling committer + PPMC member votes (was: INCUBATOR-57 aka IPMC votes...) In-reply-to: Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Message-id: <6B57B409-B034-461A-BCDD-F8563A457381@SUN.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-45--284159221 References: X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --Apple-Mail-45--284159221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -1 The proposed process improves on the existing process by aligning it better with the process by which a PMC communicates with the board. But as I've said earlier, there is no indication here that three +1 votes are needed from incubator PMC members. It makes people crazy if they have to look in multiple places to find what they need to do. This paragraph should make it clear what a successful vote would be. From the discussion earlier, there would have to be three +1 votes from incubator PMC members prior to a lazy vote. And there's no discussion of what the process is if there are not three binding +1 votes in the PPMC. Needs work. Craig On Jun 23, 2008, at 12:45 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to ask for a vote on Justin's proposal below, to change the > "Vote on the podling's private (PPMC) list.." paragraph at > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html . > > There were lots of +1s in the original thread, and a minor concern > that this does not explicitely that 3 +1 votes from Incubator PMC > members are required. > > That concern is addressed by the text that follows this paragraph on > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html: > >> Only votes cast by Incubator PMC members are binding, but votes by >> the PPMC are >> very important. The entire PPMC should show support for the >> nominee. If the vote is >> positive (three or more binding +1 votes and no binding -1 votes), >> the proposer... > > So I think Justin's proposal is good to go - please cast your votes, > so that we can clarify this and move on. > > -Bertrand > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Justin Erenkrantz > wrote: >> Currently on http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html, we have: >> --- >> Vote on the podling's private (PPMC) list, with notice posted to the >> Incubator private list. The notice is a separate email forwarding the >> vote email with a cover statement that this vote is underway on the >> podling's private list. Many consider this approach to be best >> practice. After completing the vote on the PPMC list, the proposer >> calls a vote on the Incubator PMC private list, summarizing the >> discussion and vote, with a reference to the archived discussion and >> vote threads by the PPMC. The Incubator vote is done even if there >> are >> three +1 votes from Incubator PMC members during the PPMC vote, in >> order to give all Incubator PMC members a chance to express their >> support or disapproval after seeing the PPMC discussion and vote >> results. Note that only the Incubator PMC members can see the >> Incubator private discussion, and the podling's Mentors should review >> all Incubator PMC feedback with the PPMC. Moreover, only Apache >> members may review the private PPMC list (this is normally not an >> issue since most Incubator PMC members are Apache members). >> --- >> >> I'd like to make the suggestion that we alter this to: >> --- >> Vote on the podling's private (PPMC) list, with notice posted to the >> Incubator private list. The notice is a separate email forwarding the >> vote email with a cover statement that this vote is underway on the >> podling's private list. Many consider this approach to be best >> practice. After completing the vote on the PPMC list, the proposer >> *sends a note to* the Incubator PMC private list, summarizing the >> discussion and vote, with a reference to the archived discussion and >> vote threads by the PPMC. *Any member of the Incubator PMC can ACK >> the receipt of the vote. This starts a 72-hour window for lazy >> consensus. After 72 hours and no requests by any Incubator PMC >> member >> for a full vote by the Incubator PMC, the committer request is >> approved by the Incubator PMC and the PPMC can start the committer >> invitation process.* >> --- >> >> This intentionally follows the procedure for adding a PMC member wrt >> full ASF board. I like the concept of expanding this for committers >> as well for Incubation, so there. I don't like needless 'dual >> voting', but I do want the IPMC to have the chance to execute >> oversight. >> >> WDYT? -- justin > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? 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