From general-return-18733-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Thu Jun 26 20:25:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 83447 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2008 20:25:43 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 26 Jun 2008 20:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 34714 invoked by uid 500); 26 Jun 2008 20:25:44 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 34341 invoked by uid 500); 26 Jun 2008 20:25:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 34330 invoked by uid 99); 26 Jun 2008 20:25:43 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:25:43 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=10.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [212.227.126.174] (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.174) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from PC033 (mail.esteam.de [217.7.226.111]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwh2-1KBy1G1uvL-0006cX; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:24:38 +0200 From: "Rainer Doebele" To: Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Empire-db Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:24:38 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c8d7ca$a888ea90$1b00a8c0@esteam.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcjXCr4oe43rvwjQSvC1TE4fMlaV4AAu3ofwAAEKjaA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+kDLr+5B/gwf0Sgv161Ogm8096e4OdeGtK3lP aHqpCLF9lrvOHMII0EIR3ryHX1NXydX3CGyTeDV3NK0PuW+VY6 jt1rrRzOSVU560O05lHgSnoYyNfgkEo X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Referring to: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Empire-dbProposal Martijn Dashorst wrote: > I find this alarming: when there are no new challenges awaiting the > project, why join Apache? The code is stable and mature, you can just > leave it at sf.net. There doesn't seem to be a plan other than "let's > join Apache and hope the community grows automatically". If the > current core developers don't have challenges for the project, how > would the community grow? I feel a little misunderstood here. Mature does not mean finished. We = can think of a lot of improvements that we just did=92t have the demand for = yet. And we cannot implement new features just for the sake of it. For = example there are currently only four DBMS supported by Empire-db: Oracle, SQL-Server, MySQL and HSQLDB. We neither have the demand nor the = expertise to support other systems, but other people might have. This is a good = entry point for other developers to join in the development process. There is = also demand for more in-depth work in the drivers e.g. to provide better = support for stored procedures or DBMS specific features. But most of all, we see Empire-db as more than just a DB layer. The true benefit comes from utilizing its metadata services in the presentation layer. With our Stuts2 extensions we show one possible solution how this = can be achieved - limited to be used in conjunction with Struts2 of course. = A similar thing can possibly be done for JSF, Wicket or others. And it=92s certainly also feasible for rich client user interfaces. This is not a trivial task and requires a sound understanding of the corresponding presentation layer framework. We can only provide the vision, but it = takes some experts and a strong community to make it reality. BTW: we are currently working on a new release that will allow the definition of metadata for non relational data objects like data from = flat files or Web-Services in a similar manner in order to provide a uniform client level access for data and metadata. Any help with this is deeply appreciated. > I'm not convinced yet that incubating at Apache is the best thing for > empire-db. I think that seeking out new ideas, users and (future) > committers for the project is the highest priority. Of course this can > be done whilest incubating, but having incubator plastered all over > the project won't attract more users or developers. > > Some mild marketing such as posting an article on javalobby > (java.dzone.com) or theserverside.com to get some publicity will help > the project more than becoming an Apache project. Posting articles on javalobby or theserverside.com is certainly a good = idea. But isn=92t this another thing that a community is good for? I will = certainly support anyone who is planning on doing so. Overall I am not convinced that leaving he project on sf.net and writing = a view articles will really bring the project forward. IMO the ASF is the right platform. But of course I respect your opinion. Regards Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org