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From "Paul Fremantle" <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: moving a failed incubation project
Date Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:55:01 GMT
Assaf

Firstly lets place this in context - the code has never had a release
AFAIK. So anyone relying on this is relying on code with no legal
standing from Apache.

Secondly, if someone moves from an Apache codebase to a forked
codebase, then that should be a deliberate action with a real purpose.
After all, a fork is a fork. Its not the original codebase, and its
not the Apache code.

I know I'm coming across as illiberal here, but the fact is that I
have no problems with forking code. I'm very pleased someone wants to
breath life into TSIK. But I honestly believe it would be misleading
and confusing to the wider community if they keep this in the
org.apache structure.

I also think the PRC should weigh in on this discussion because I
think this is about Apache branding.

Paul

On Jan 22, 2008 9:54 PM, Assaf Arkin <arkin@intalio.com> wrote:
> On 1/22/08, Paul Fremantle <pzfreo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with the general point about the legality of using the
> > org.apache namespace. However, I think there is a significant issue
> > here. People assume that org.apache code is from Apache. And the
> > reasoning that its too much effort to rename is frankly wrong. Even
> > sed could do a decent job and probably sort the problem out.
>
>
> But don't forget that you also need to sed and rebuild every piece of code
> referencing those packages directly, often not under your control, and
> you're breaking compatibility with code that assumes the old package names
> by means of import or hard-coded class names, losing a feature available in
> the original code base.
>
> If you fork Apache Foo you can no longer call it Apache Foo, but if you need
> to change package names, you can no longer use it where org.apache.foo is
> imported.
>
> So forcing package renaming allows forking the source code, but limits the
> field of use.
>
> Assaf
>
>
> I think the usage of org.apache should be considered in the same way
> > as the Apache Logo - something that the ASF controls rigorously to
> > protect our brand image.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On Jan 22, 2008 8:12 PM, Niall Pemberton <niall.pemberton@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Jan 22, 2008 6:23 PM, Craig L Russell <Craig.Russell@sun.com> wrote:
> > > > I think the terminology in the subject is wrong.
> > > >
> > > > You are not "moving a failed incubation project." That project is
> > dead.
> > > >
> > > > What you can do is to use the code in another project, and assume all
> > > > responsibility to verify that the license in the code is correct.
> > > >
> > > > What you can't do is to use the Apache brand for another project,
> > > > meaning to use the package names including apache if it's not an
> > > > Apache project.
> > >
> > > I thought the whole point of the AL was that pepople could take code
> > > away and do whatever they want with it - it doesn't say in the AL you
> > > can "do whatever you want with it as long as you rename the packages".
> > >
> > > Niall
> > >
> > > > And please be aware that the code might be tainted. Since it never
> > > > left incubation, the code's provenance might never have been vetted.
> > > > So you don't really know what you're getting, in terms of ownership,
> > > > license, patent, etc. If you use the code you're responsible for
> > > > making sure it's really ok.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Hans Granqvist wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to move a failed incubation project (TSIK) to Google Code,
> > > > > but the source is full of org.apache.* packages, so I'm not sure
> > > > > what the right way to do this is. (The code would keep the same
> > > > > ASF 2.0 license.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Changing the package names will break any and all code, so if
> > > > > it'd be great if that's avoidable.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Fremantle
> > Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
> > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >
> > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> > paul@wso2.com
> >
> > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> CTO, Intalio
> http://www.intalio.com
>



-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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