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From "Niall Pemberton" <niall.pember...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Thrift
Date Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:38:35 GMT
On Jan 30, 2008 7:24 AM, Mark Slee <mslee@facebook.com> wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> *If I look at the initial committers list, I see a big portion to be
> facebook developers. During incubation you should work on diversifying.*
>
> *Again, it seems like a huge contingent of facebook developers. You
> really should work on diversification during incubation.*
>
> Points well taken. We actually have a much bigger list of developers who
> have contributed significant patches to Thrift. The issue, as Upayavira
> pointed out in his other email, is that Thrift is a project spanning
> many programming languages but striving to make them all work together
> seamlessly. The result is that we have many developers familiar with
> particular language implementations, but not others. What we'd really
> like to set up here is a system where there are different people with
> committer priveleges to different parts of the project. It's really an
> interesting community dynamic... over time (already in fact) *no one*
> will really understand all the Thrift codebase. So what we'd like to
> develop is a community where people may become experts in some languages
> and have committer priveleges there but not universally. We erred on the
> side of having the initial committer list be shorter at first, as we'd
> have to figure out how exactly to structure a partitioned commiters
> system in the Apache environment.

If there are people who have already proven their *merit* on the
project that are not included on the initial list of committers then I
think they should be. My guess is that diversity is going to be a
bigger issue for you than any code *partitioning* and facebook is
going to loose the control its had here at Apache - so you may as well
take the plunge from the start. I believe those people and the Thrift
community will benefit greatly from having them involved from the
outset.

> In reality, many parts of the Thrift code base are already entirely
> owned by non-Facebook entities. The Cocoa, C#, Perl, and Smalltalk
> implementations for Thrift were all developed entirely outside of
> Facebook, and although Facebook still maintains the trunk, we defer
> review of all these patches to the developers working on those
> libraries.

So are these people on the initial list of committers?

> In another case, the Ruby implementation was initially done
> at Facebook, but we have passed de facto ownership to Powerset after
> some great patches from Kevin Clark which really improved the
> implementation. We now also defer all Ruby code reviews, and if we had
> the partioned committers system in place already I wouldn't even
> recommend any Facebook developers (myself included) as initial
> committers for the Ruby codebase.
>
> So... that's a lot of rambling, but it's sort of a unique committers
> situation. Interested to hear if there are other projects that have had
> this sort of setup.
>
> *Hmm, hosting at googlecode, or sourceforge would statisfy that as well.
> So why does the project want to join Apache specifically?*
>
> One big reason is that we think this project could provide a lot of
> utility for many other Apache projects. Having Thrift in Apache, closer
> to other similar projects, should mean less obstacles to a clean
> integration, more communication and input into the different use cases,
> feature prioritization, and hopefully some development collaboration as
> well.
>
> *What is the affiliation of Jake Luciani?*
>
> Jake runs a website http://www.junkdepot.com/ and has also independently
> developed some open source applications built on top of Thrift,
> available at:
> http://code.google.com/p/thrudb/
>
> This has also now been picked up by Ross McFarland, who's working on a
> ThruDB-based document store:
> http://diststore.com/
>
> So... already we're seeing a cool open source mini-ecosystem develop
> about Thrift. Facebook also plans to open source Scribe, a distributed
> logging framework built on Thrift. If accepted into Apache, we'd likely
> also include Scribe as a sub-project or contrib submission to Thrift.
> We'd be interested to hear if that'd be appropriate or what the general
> approach is to subprojects or non-core addons.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:34 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: thrift@publists.facebook.com
>
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Thrift
>
> On 1/24/08, Mark Slee <mslee@facebook.com> wrote:
> >
> > === Core Developers ===
> > Thrift currently has developers across many organizations (e.g.
> > Facebook, Powerset, ReCaptcha, AmieStreet), many of whom are
> > contributors to other open source projects.
>
>
> If I look at the initial committers list, I see a big portion to be
> facebook developers. During incubation you should work on diversifying.
>
> Part of the reason to join Apache is
> > to make the project work even better as open source by removing some
> > obstacles, such as Facebook hosting the SVN, and putting the resources
>
> > all in a truly open space, being able to have more committers, etc.
> > Most of the core developers have a history of working with open source
> tools.
>
>
> Hmm, hosting at googlecode, or sourceforge would statisfy that as well.
> So why does the project want to join Apache specifically?
>
> === Homogenous Developers ===
> > The current set of developers work across a variety of organizations.
> > Naturally, most are websites with significant backend structure (and
> > hence a need for Thrift), but the problems they are solving are
> > diverse, and many don't work in the same programming languages.
>
>
> Again, it seems like a huge contingent of facebook developers. You
> really should work on diversification during incubation.
>
>
>
> === Subversion Directory ===
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift
> >
> > We'd also be interested in using git to store the repo. Does apache
> > have infrastucture set up to support that? It'd make it easier for
> > non-committer developers to work on patches, checkpoint commits, etc.
>
>
> There is no current infrastructure for this available. There has been an
> experiment done by the Maven devs, but I'm out of touch with its status.
>
> == Initial Committers ==
> > * Mark Slee (mcslee at facebook dot com)
> > * Aditya Agarwal (aditya at facebook dot com)
> > * Marc Kwiatkowski (marc at facebook dot com)
> > * David Reiss (david at facebook dot com)
> > * James Wang (jwang at facebook dot com)
> > * Chris Piro (cpiro at facebook dot com)
> > * Ben Maurer (bmaurer at andrew dot cmu dot edu)
> > * Kevin Clark (kevin at powerset dot com)
> > * Jake Luciani (jakers at gmail dot com)
>
>
> == Affiliations ==
> > * People with Facebook email addresses - Facebook
> > * Ben Maurer - ReCaptcha
> > * Kevin Clark - Powerset
>
>
> What is the affiliation of Jake Luciani?
>
> === Mentors ===
> > * Paul Querna
> > * Upayavira
>
>
> I think you need one more mentor, but (s)he may present her/himself
> during the vote for the proposal.
>
>
> Martijn
>
> --
> Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst Apache Wicket 1.3.0 is
> released Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0
>
>
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