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From "Mark Slee" <ms...@facebook.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] Thrift
Date Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:24:10 GMT
Hi Martin,

*If I look at the initial committers list, I see a big portion to be
facebook developers. During incubation you should work on diversifying.*

*Again, it seems like a huge contingent of facebook developers. You
really should work on diversification during incubation.*

Points well taken. We actually have a much bigger list of developers who
have contributed significant patches to Thrift. The issue, as Upayavira
pointed out in his other email, is that Thrift is a project spanning
many programming languages but striving to make them all work together
seamlessly. The result is that we have many developers familiar with
particular language implementations, but not others. What we'd really
like to set up here is a system where there are different people with
committer priveleges to different parts of the project. It's really an
interesting community dynamic... over time (already in fact) *no one*
will really understand all the Thrift codebase. So what we'd like to
develop is a community where people may become experts in some languages
and have committer priveleges there but not universally. We erred on the
side of having the initial committer list be shorter at first, as we'd
have to figure out how exactly to structure a partitioned commiters
system in the Apache environment.

In reality, many parts of the Thrift code base are already entirely
owned by non-Facebook entities. The Cocoa, C#, Perl, and Smalltalk
implementations for Thrift were all developed entirely outside of
Facebook, and although Facebook still maintains the trunk, we defer
review of all these patches to the developers working on those
libraries. In another case, the Ruby implementation was initially done
at Facebook, but we have passed de facto ownership to Powerset after
some great patches from Kevin Clark which really improved the
implementation. We now also defer all Ruby code reviews, and if we had
the partioned committers system in place already I wouldn't even
recommend any Facebook developers (myself included) as initial
committers for the Ruby codebase.

So... that's a lot of rambling, but it's sort of a unique committers
situation. Interested to hear if there are other projects that have had
this sort of setup.

*Hmm, hosting at googlecode, or sourceforge would statisfy that as well.
So why does the project want to join Apache specifically?*

One big reason is that we think this project could provide a lot of
utility for many other Apache projects. Having Thrift in Apache, closer
to other similar projects, should mean less obstacles to a clean
integration, more communication and input into the different use cases,
feature prioritization, and hopefully some development collaboration as
well.

*What is the affiliation of Jake Luciani?*

Jake runs a website http://www.junkdepot.com/ and has also independently
developed some open source applications built on top of Thrift,
available at:
http://code.google.com/p/thrudb/

This has also now been picked up by Ross McFarland, who's working on a
ThruDB-based document store:
http://diststore.com/

So... already we're seeing a cool open source mini-ecosystem develop
about Thrift. Facebook also plans to open source Scribe, a distributed
logging framework built on Thrift. If accepted into Apache, we'd likely
also include Scribe as a sub-project or contrib submission to Thrift.
We'd be interested to hear if that'd be appropriate or what the general
approach is to subprojects or non-core addons.

Cheers,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:34 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: thrift@publists.facebook.com
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Thrift

On 1/24/08, Mark Slee <mslee@facebook.com> wrote:
>
> === Core Developers ===
> Thrift currently has developers across many organizations (e.g.
> Facebook, Powerset, ReCaptcha, AmieStreet), many of whom are 
> contributors to other open source projects.


If I look at the initial committers list, I see a big portion to be
facebook developers. During incubation you should work on diversifying.

Part of the reason to join Apache is
> to make the project work even better as open source by removing some 
> obstacles, such as Facebook hosting the SVN, and putting the resources

> all in a truly open space, being able to have more committers, etc. 
> Most of the core developers have a history of working with open source
tools.


Hmm, hosting at googlecode, or sourceforge would statisfy that as well.
So why does the project want to join Apache specifically?

=== Homogenous Developers ===
> The current set of developers work across a variety of organizations.
> Naturally, most are websites with significant backend structure (and 
> hence a need for Thrift), but the problems they are solving are 
> diverse, and many don't work in the same programming languages.


Again, it seems like a huge contingent of facebook developers. You
really should work on diversification during incubation.



=== Subversion Directory ===
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift
>
> We'd also be interested in using git to store the repo. Does apache 
> have infrastucture set up to support that? It'd make it easier for 
> non-committer developers to work on patches, checkpoint commits, etc.


There is no current infrastructure for this available. There has been an
experiment done by the Maven devs, but I'm out of touch with its status.

== Initial Committers ==
> * Mark Slee (mcslee at facebook dot com)
> * Aditya Agarwal (aditya at facebook dot com)
> * Marc Kwiatkowski (marc at facebook dot com)
> * David Reiss (david at facebook dot com)
> * James Wang (jwang at facebook dot com)
> * Chris Piro (cpiro at facebook dot com)
> * Ben Maurer (bmaurer at andrew dot cmu dot edu)
> * Kevin Clark (kevin at powerset dot com)
> * Jake Luciani (jakers at gmail dot com)


== Affiliations ==
> * People with Facebook email addresses - Facebook
> * Ben Maurer - ReCaptcha
> * Kevin Clark - Powerset


What is the affiliation of Jake Luciani?

=== Mentors ===
> * Paul Querna
> * Upayavira


I think you need one more mentor, but (s)he may present her/himself
during the vote for the proposal.


Martijn

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