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From Bill Stoddard <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Date Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:09:14 GMT
Thanks for the good comments.

Ting Peng,
All successful open source projects share one thing in common... they 
have active and diverse developer communities (and hopefully a growing 
user community).  The word and concept of 'community' is extremely 
important.  A project's development community works together, 
collaborates, to define the goals of the project, ensure that code is 
high quality and secure, and create releases for end users.  ASF 
projects cannot exist without community.  The Incubator PMC will not 
allow projects to graduate from Incubation if they fail to establish an 
active and diverse developer community.  This is why Bertrand's comments 
are extremely important. 

To be accepted into incubation, the Bluesky team must commit to doing 
development in an open, public and transparent way.  When a project is 
accepted into Incubation, the project will get a website (or wiki 
space), an SVN source code repository, and a mailing list to be used by 
the development team.  The bluesky team must:

1. use the developer mailing list, website and wiki to conduct most all 
of the communication between team members regarding design and 
development decisions
The mailing list archive should almost be a 'design document', where 
design decisions are discussed openly and team members are given a 
chance to comment on decisions. 'hallway' and face to face discussion 
resulting in design decisions should be avoided if possible, and when 
they do happen, someone must capture the decision in an email sent to 
the mailing list so the community can see how the project is evolving.

2.  In order to grow the community as large as possible, the ASF 
requires that all development communication be conducted in English.  
This allows people from all over the world to follow the project, watch 
it evolve and contribute.  It's perfectly okay to provide documentation 
in other languages, but most discussions about project design and 
implementation decisions must be conducted in English in a public forum 
(mailing list, wiki, etc). 

If the Bluesky project is accepted into Incubation, will the Bluesky 
team be able to commit to conducting project communications in the 
public in English?  This is a significant challenge to the Chinese 
developers on the Bluesky team. Can the team meet the challenge? 

新年快乐, Happy New Year!


Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <> wrote:
>>> ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal.  Ting Peng and 
>>> Incubator PMC,
>>> please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
>> I have two concerns about
>>> ...weekly development summary on this web site:
>>> (Currently, only available in mainland of 
>>> China)...
>> I think we need a committment from the BlueSky team that all
>> information and artifacts related to the project will be available
>> worldwide. I know nothing about how things work in China in this
>> respect, but having parts of the project segregated is not acceptable,
>> IMHO. That might make some community members second-class citizens if
>> they don't have access to everything.
> Currently, we have built official site of BlueSky, which is located at 
> .
> This website is worldwide available. You are welcomed to visit this 
> website.
>>> ...Documentation
>>> All in Chinese now...
>> In the same vein, we need to make it very clear that all
>> project-related communications have to happen in english on the ASF
>> mailing lists and websites. I don't think the ASF would be able to
>> provide the necessary oversight for anything happening in Chinese,
>> just as we don't support other languages at the moment.
>> Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
>> important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
>> on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
>> not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
>> necessary agreements are in place before going further.
> We have already written some documents about project BlueSky. These 
> includes technical structure,
> source code, compiling instructions and screenshots. All of them are 
> in English. More documents are
> in preparing.
>> -Bertrand
> If anyone has any advice about our project BlueSky, please let us 
> know. We do need your help.
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

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