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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Community diversity: current concerns and suggestions for improvement
Date Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:05:45 GMT
Hi,

Some of the discussion here to me seems to be backward: adding  
constraints to the entry of a podling to the incubator.

I'd hope that we could get podlings, including all of their current  
community, into the incubator and then actively mentor/monitor its  
activities to promote diversity and openness. It may be quite time- 
consuming, if possible at all, to try to analyze a proposed podling's  
alignment with Apache's values, especially if the only metrics we  
have are the proposed podling's committer list.

During incubation, diversity and openness have to be evaluated to see  
if the community has achieved its goals prior to graduation. If the  
community was not diverse at entry, and has not attracted outside  
committers, then it doesn't graduate. These goals are well-defined in  
the incubation process.

Bottom line, I'd rather see the focus on achieving diversity goals on  
the way to graduation, not on raising barriers to entry into incubation.

A couple of additional comments below...

On Nov 19, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Nov 18, 2007 1:46 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>> 3) Limit the number of new non-ASF initial committers for  
>> incubating projects
>> People who were not ASF committers but come in via a newly incubating
>> project do not get their commit rights via the normal ASF meritocracy
>> rules.
>
> I don't see how being an ASF committer would make you special as an
> initial committer of an incubating project?

Right. Podlings' committer lists are independent of current Apache  
committer lists.

> IMHO we should allow
> everyone who is actively involved with the codebase to follow the code
> as a committer within the incubating project.

I agree. How can we exclude folks who are already active on a project?
>
> We could (or should) better define what that "actively involved" means
> (based on ASF-like merit rules) and police that definition so people
> won't use the incubator proposals as shortcuts for committership.

I don't have experience with people padding their resumes with  
"Committer on Incubating Apache <Podling>" and not doing anything  
productive on <Podling>. Is this really a concern? If anyone does due  
diligence via the podling mailing lists it should be obvious what the  
truth is.

So I have no issue with anyone becoming a committer on a podling,  
given that all of the podling committers are reviewed at graduation  
to make sure they've demonstrated their commitment to the project.

> Making existing ASF committership a part of that entry criteria (even
> as a special bonus) sounds wrong to me.

I agree.

Craig
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
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Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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