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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Podling Committer policy
Date Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:20:07 GMT
Hi Upayavira,

On Jun 20, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Upayavira wrote:

> Craig L Russell wrote:
>> Getting back to my original comment, I don't see how the IPMC can  
>> meaningfully participate in a discussion or vote held on the PPMC  
>> private mailing list. I don't think it's reasonable for an IPMC  
>> member who is exercising oversight in the specific case of a new  
>> committer to be required to subscribe to the podling's private  
>> PPMC mailing list for this purpose.
>> What might work is for the [DISCUSS] and [VOTE] of the candidate  
>> to be held simultaneously on the PPMC private mailing list and the  
>> IPMC private mailing list. All of both the IPMC and PPMC can fully  
>> participate in the process. Then, at the end of the [VOTE] it will  
>> be clear whether the vote passed.
>
> Unfortunately I would probably then unsub from private@incubator  
> due to mail overload.

I'm afraid I don't follow. It's the job of the IPMC to oversee  
podlings, and in particular to vote on new Apache committers.

And you would rather scrounge through email archives looking for  
discussions of potential committers? That seems to me to be a much  
bigger time sink than reading the mail headers of [VOTE] and  
[DISCUSS] new Apache committer messages.
>
> What we are dealing with here is how non-member IPMC members can  
> carry out their duties as IPMC members. Non member IPMC members are  
> in the minority, so we are dealing with a minority case.
>
> So, we have two choices:
>  1) Someone deploys a web interface to the list archives using
>     a sufficiently sophisticated authentication scheme
>  2) Whenever a non-member IPMC member wants to hear what is going  
> on on
>     a *-private@i.a.o list, they ask a member who will make a password
>     protected zip of the list archive available to them.

Neither of these solves the issue that reading an email archive after  
the fact does not provide for meaningful engagement of IPMC members  
with the podling community.

And if an IPMC member does have some comments, it seems that the  
comments belong on both the PPMC private and IPMC private mail lists  
anyway.

Craig
>
> At the moment, these are the options we have. Clearly 2) is more  
> painful, but easier to handle in the short term. I personally am  
> open to requests for list archives.
>
> Regards, Upayavira
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> Upayavira wrote:
>>>
>>>> The implication here is that, if we consider the IPMC to have  
>>>> the role
>>>> of overseeing podlings
>>>
>>> Is there an "if" there?  ;-)  That *is* the job of the Incubator  
>>> PMC, and it is the sole holder of that role.
>>>
>>>> IPMC members must have the necessary rights to do so.
>>>
>>> The Incubator PMC is the managing entity of all things in the  
>>> Incubator.  Nothing is private from the Incubator PMC, by  
>>> definition.
>>>
>>>> perhaps IPMC members should have access to all podling private  
>>>> lists.
>>>
>>> No perhaps about it.  Any Incubator PMC member who wants to be on  
>>> any @i.a.o list can be; if they have any difficulty being  
>>> moderated on, they should contact me (or anyone else with apmail  
>>> karma).
>>>
>>>> the right to see archives, but I don't know whether they'd need a
>>>> member proxy to see the archives or if that can be done via unix
>>>> perms on p.a.o).
>>>
>>> At present all private list archives are available only to ASF  
>>> Members.  This is not policy so much as a pragmatic limitation of  
>>> available ACLs.  apmail is the owner and apmember is the group.   
>>> We have talked about having a protected web interface to private  
>>> lists, but thus no one has stepped to do it.  And there are  
>>> issues to resolve related to granularity of access.
>>>
>>>     --- Noel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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>>>
>> Craig Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/ 
>> jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
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>

Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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