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From "Paul Fremantle" <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: NMS
Date Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:51:20 GMT
Maybe we should create a set of APIs that offer genuinely open access
to messaging systems on .NET, Java, C, C# etc. Of course if Sun wished
to offer us the JMS API under an unencumbered license we could do
that, otherwise we could start from scratch.

This Apache Messaging API could then be freely implementable under
AL2.0 license rules without having to worry about this sort of IP
****.

Paul

On 6/7/07, John O'Hara <john.r.ohara@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bingo.  Nicely explained.
>
> I'm glad someone else sees the problem.
>
> We need to keep our software 100% clean; its amazing how much IP law you
> need to know to write code and give it away.
>
> Which is why the generic form API for AMQP should be derived from AMQP, not
> JMS.
>
> AMQP itself was designed mostly based on IETF concepts which are
> unencumbered (like smtp, nntp, nfs).  *After* it was designed it was checked
> against the JMS specification to see that a JMS API could be implemented in
> terms of AMQP primitives.
>
> AMQP is not derived from JMS and has different architecture principles.
>
> Cheers
> John
>
>
> On 07/06/07, Paul Fremantle <pzfreo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hiram
> >
> >
> > > I guess you are referring to the license to that allows a person to
> > > hold a copy of the JMS spec.  I wonder if violating/terminating the
> > > that license IP taints any work created using Ideas obtain from it.
> > > Since this seems to be in the Idea category... I would have thought
> > > that there would need some patents in place to enforce it.
> >
> > Not really. Once you agree to a contract (like that license) its
> > simply contract law, AFAIK.
> >
> >
> > > > at the JMS specification. Secondly the JMS copyright. Since, as far as
> > > > I can see, NMS is likely to be a "derived work" of JMS it is also
> > > > likely that it breaches the copyright of the spec.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I can assure you that no copying has taken place.  NMS was initially
> > > not an abstract messaging API.  It was just an API to the .NET client
> > > implementation for ActiveMQ.  Once that started to take shape an
> > > abstract API that has the same domain model as JMS was extracted from
> > > the implementation.   It would be more accurate to say that NMS is a
> > > derived work of an ActiveMQ client.
> >
> > Yes, but where did the ActiveMQ design come from? Since ActiveMQ was
> > designed - as I understand it - as an implementation of the JMS spec,
> > then it is itself a derived work of the JMS spec, and therefore NMS is
> > a derived work too. Now the JMS Spec license allows you to create
> > derived works, as long as they are Java implementations, so ActiveMQ
> > as a JMS server is covered, but that coverage doesn't apply to NMS
> > because Sun specifically limited the license.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > > > On 6/7/07, Hiram Chirino <hiram@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
> > > > > I ceased use of and destroyed my copy of the Specification years
ago
> > =)
> > > > >
> > > > > But seriously, what kind of IP is it that is being violated?
> > > > > copyright? patent? or some other kind that I'm not aware of?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Hiram
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/1/07, Arnaud Simon <asimon@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have been thinking about implementing the NMS API as part
of
> > the
> > > > > > QPID .Net client. However we are concerned about potential legal
> > issues.
> > > > > > It seems to me that the NMS API is very similar to the JMS one
but
> > the
> > > > > > JMS specification specifically licenses the technology "only
for
> > Java".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the relevant license, copied directly from the JMS Spec
> > > > > > document:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Subject to the terms and conditions of this license, Sun hereby
> > grants
> > > > > > you a fully-paid, non-exclusive, non-transferable, worldwide,
> > limited
> > > > > > license (without the right to sublicense) under Sun's intellectual
> > > > > > property rights to review the Specification internally solely
for
> > the
> > > > > > purpose of designing and developing your Java applets and
> > applications
> > > > > > intended to run on the Java platform. Other than this limited
> > license,
> > > > > > you acquire no right, title or interest in or to the Specification
> > or
> > > > > > any other Sun intellectual property. The Specification contains
> > the
> > > > > > proprietary information of Sun and may only be used in accordance
> > with
> > > > > > the license terms set forth herein. This license will terminate
> > > > > > immediately without notice from Sun if you fail to comply with
any
> > > > > > provision of this license. Upon termination or expiration of
this
> > > > > > license, you must cease use of or destroy the Specification."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anybody know if this concern has already been raised?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Arnaud
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Hiram
> > > > >
> > > > > Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Paul Fremantle
> > > > Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
> > > > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> > > >
> > > > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> > > > paul@wso2.com
> > > >
> > > > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> > > > only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> > > > constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> > > > and policies of the ASF.  See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/>
for
> > > > official ASF policies and documents.
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Hiram
> > >
> > > Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Fremantle
> > Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
> > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >
> > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> > paul@wso2.com
> >
> > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>


-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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