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From "Brett Porter" <brett.por...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: making project decisions with a small number of PMC members
Date Tue, 15 May 2007 16:07:50 GMT
Thanks folks. What Leo and Craig said is what I expected, though I was
a bit concerned about finding the IPMC people to ratify such
decisions. I'll still look for more mentors.

- Brett

On 15/05/07, Craig L Russell <Craig.Russell@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi Brett,
>
> +1 to most of what Leo says.
>
> I'd point out that the main purpose of the PPMC is to get the podling
> to the point of making decisions "the Apache Way" and the IPMC then
> ratifies the decisions. This model should allow the decisions to be
> made by the people who know and care the most, while preserving the
> accountability that's legally required.
>
> So if you properly vote in the PPMC to accept a new committer, or
> vote on a new release, following the process in the incubator policy
> and guides, the IPMC will likely approve pretty quickly any decisions
> that are made. If you're having difficulty getting the binding IPMC
> votes after the PPMC votes, then this is an issue that needs to be
> addressed.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Craig
>
> On May 15, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
>
> > On May 15, 2007, at 12:26 AM, Brett Porter wrote:
> >> Quick question (I hope). I was thinking about what will happen if the
> >> NMaven podling would like to add a committer, make a release, etc.
> >>
> >> Would votes by Maven PMC members (As the sponsoring project) be
> >> considered binding in this case, or should we have IPMC members?
> >
> > No the sponsoring PMC votes are not binding. It should be the IPMC.
> >
> >> We currently only have 2 IPMC members on the project, so I was going
> >> to ask for an additional mentor anyway, but I feel like the
> >> appropriate people to be casting votes should be Maven PMC folk.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >
> > I share your feeling. I'm afraid it is not so easy to change.
> >
> >  * ASF is structured to have a PMC (or Officer) responsible and
> >    accontable for most things
> >  * ASF is not structured for multiple PMCs or Officers to share
> >    responsibility
> >
> > Changing this is a lot of work (for example it screws up the
> > workflow for infrastructure since it becomes much harder to know if
> > a request came with the right authority), so I've always shunned
> > away from it.
> >
> > As to which PMC *should* be responsible for *what*, "it depends".
> > We've seen projects were it was really needed for the Incubator PMC
> > to take the responsibility for a TLP-sponsored podling, and then
> > some projects where the IPMC was hardly ever needed at all.
> >
> > (aside: some of the original designs for the incubator introduced
> > the "PPMC" that would consist of
> >   * incubator PMC
> >   * sponsoring PMC
> >   * all committers on the new project
> >   * all mentors of the project
> > where the goal would sort-of be to have the committers make the
> > actual decisions and then the IPMC and sponsoring PMC would
> > reluctantly fill in the gaps. We had to move away from that because
> > it broke the "clear accountability" chain; Secondly, a lot of
> > sponsoring PMC members and IPMC members didn't want to be on that
> > many mailing lists.
> >
> > So now we have a PPMC which is really just the committers on the
> > project with their mentors, and it's supposedly no longer allowed
> > to make any real decisions. Not so great a situation either.)
> >
> > /LSD
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
> Craig Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>

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