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From Dain Sundstrom <d...@iq80.com>
Subject Re: making project decisions with a small number of PMC members
Date Tue, 22 May 2007 20:09:36 GMT
Are there some Maven PMC members that could join the IPMC?  Maven by  
it's very nature seem to bring in a lot of projects so in the long  
run I think it will be in your collective best interestes to get more  
involved with the IPMC.

-dain

On May 15, 2007, at 9:07 AM, Brett Porter wrote:

> Thanks folks. What Leo and Craig said is what I expected, though I was
> a bit concerned about finding the IPMC people to ratify such
> decisions. I'll still look for more mentors.
>
> - Brett
>
> On 15/05/07, Craig L Russell <Craig.Russell@sun.com> wrote:
>> Hi Brett,
>>
>> +1 to most of what Leo says.
>>
>> I'd point out that the main purpose of the PPMC is to get the podling
>> to the point of making decisions "the Apache Way" and the IPMC then
>> ratifies the decisions. This model should allow the decisions to be
>> made by the people who know and care the most, while preserving the
>> accountability that's legally required.
>>
>> So if you properly vote in the PPMC to accept a new committer, or
>> vote on a new release, following the process in the incubator policy
>> and guides, the IPMC will likely approve pretty quickly any decisions
>> that are made. If you're having difficulty getting the binding IPMC
>> votes after the PPMC votes, then this is an issue that needs to be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> On May 15, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
>>
>> > On May 15, 2007, at 12:26 AM, Brett Porter wrote:
>> >> Quick question (I hope). I was thinking about what will happen  
>> if the
>> >> NMaven podling would like to add a committer, make a release, etc.
>> >>
>> >> Would votes by Maven PMC members (As the sponsoring project) be
>> >> considered binding in this case, or should we have IPMC members?
>> >
>> > No the sponsoring PMC votes are not binding. It should be the IPMC.
>> >
>> >> We currently only have 2 IPMC members on the project, so I was  
>> going
>> >> to ask for an additional mentor anyway, but I feel like the
>> >> appropriate people to be casting votes should be Maven PMC folk.
>> >>
>> >> Thoughts?
>> >
>> > I share your feeling. I'm afraid it is not so easy to change.
>> >
>> >  * ASF is structured to have a PMC (or Officer) responsible and
>> >    accontable for most things
>> >  * ASF is not structured for multiple PMCs or Officers to share
>> >    responsibility
>> >
>> > Changing this is a lot of work (for example it screws up the
>> > workflow for infrastructure since it becomes much harder to know if
>> > a request came with the right authority), so I've always shunned
>> > away from it.
>> >
>> > As to which PMC *should* be responsible for *what*, "it depends".
>> > We've seen projects were it was really needed for the Incubator PMC
>> > to take the responsibility for a TLP-sponsored podling, and then
>> > some projects where the IPMC was hardly ever needed at all.
>> >
>> > (aside: some of the original designs for the incubator introduced
>> > the "PPMC" that would consist of
>> >   * incubator PMC
>> >   * sponsoring PMC
>> >   * all committers on the new project
>> >   * all mentors of the project
>> > where the goal would sort-of be to have the committers make the
>> > actual decisions and then the IPMC and sponsoring PMC would
>> > reluctantly fill in the gaps. We had to move away from that because
>> > it broke the "clear accountability" chain; Secondly, a lot of
>> > sponsoring PMC members and IPMC members didn't want to be on that
>> > many mailing lists.
>> >
>> > So now we have a PPMC which is really just the committers on the
>> > project with their mentors, and it's supposedly no longer allowed
>> > to make any real decisions. Not so great a situation either.)
>> >
>> > /LSD
>> >
>> >
>> >  
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
>>
>> Craig Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/ 
>> jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>
>>
>>
>
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