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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: Difference between Maven repository and dist directory
Date Sat, 17 Mar 2007 03:40:20 GMT
Martijn Dashorst wrote:

> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Incubator releases are considerably different from those of every
> > other ASF PMC.  A ASF Community is expected to stand behind and
> > maintain its releases.

> But even those communities can dry out and grind to a halt. It is not
> that the foundation itself guarantees any support or quality,

Correct, but that's why ...

> > That is the raison d'ĂȘtre for our collaborative community based
> > model.  But the Incubator says "Sorry, Son, you're on your own.  Caveat
> > emptor, and it may be dead tomorrow.  If *you* want to take the risk of
> > using it, go right ahead, but don't expect anyone to stand behind it."

> That is why we shouldn't drop the incubator, nor its policies.
> However, creating a collaborative community requires users of the
> software and it should be encouraged to join the community. One means
> would be to release the software using the disclaimer, and the
> incubating label.

One significant difference between ASF projects and those in the Incubator
is that the ASF projects are communities that have already demonstrated
their ability to operate under ASF policy *and* sustain a development
community.  Once an Incubator project can do all of that, it should be
moving out of the Incubator.  That fact that it hasn't left means that it
still has failings in one of the criteria.

Your point that creating a collaborative community means getting software
out and encouraging users is the why Incubator projects are allowed to
release at all.  As noted earlier, that was not permitted by the Incubator
early on, and a number of us made precisely the same argument that you raise
for why releases are important.  But at the same time, we want to ensure
that users are aware of the risks involved.  Again, this is not a comment on
code quality, but the prospect that these artifacts may end up being

	--- Noel

But I think the discussion here is about the legal side, which
shouldn't arise at all, given that a podling may not release without
the consent of the IPMC (== legal barrier), using the Apache brand.


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