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From "Recordon, David" <drecor...@verisign.com>
Subject RE: Board response to January Report on Heraldry
Date Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:33:13 GMT
Hi all,
As Ted mentioned there was a thread started yesterday by Kevin Turner (
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-heraldry-dev/200701.m
box/%3c1170119622.5938.41.camel@localhost%3e) about how JanRain really
is now committed to moving all of their work into the Heraldry project.
As to not reproduce everything he said here, I really would encourage
everyone to go read that message.

I also sent a note last night
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-heraldry-dev/200701.
mbox/%3c7E7CA24460925C44AEB4F202BA7E45F302C8D5@MOU1WNEXMB14.vcorp.ad.vrs
n.com%3e) which I will quote here:
> I think this developer community both understands and appreciates the
issues that the Heraldry
> project has.  To me, I see Kevin's message as a step in the right
direction.  It shows commitment
> on behalf of JanRain to change their development practices and move to
become a real part
> of Heraldry.  I've also been trying myself to write some code and
engage this list over the
> past week and intend to continue doing so.  There are others as well
in the CardSpace community
> who have expressed interest to me in donating code to the project,
though are unready to do
> so right now for one reason or another.  Do I feel that anything we've
done thus far is perfect,
> let alone great; no.
>
> With that said, I think this is the drop dead point of either this
project really gets up
> and moves forward or dies by its next board report.  I agree block
commits suck and are annoying,
> but if that is what it is going to take so that real-time and active
development can/will
> occur here, then I think the pain it causes one final time is
worthwhile.  Quite honestly,
> the OpenID community is moving too fast to spread these commits out
over the next month, let
> alone figure out how to deal with commits that would happen within the
next month.  I also
> assume that updating the license from the LGPL to ASFv2 would be part
of this effort, as it
> seems Kevin's message expresses real commitment to making this project
succeed.
>
> IMHO, we need this final chance to show that we can make this happen,
and yes we will stumble
> over The Apache Way from time to time, but at least this one last
block commit will give us
> the chance to deal with the other issues Ted raised.  To me, this
means we'll either succeed
> or go down in flames; though not just give up now.

I really think it would be a shame to kill the project today when there
now actually is a light starting to flicker at the end of the tunnel.

--David

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Leung [mailto:twleung@sauria.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:25 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Board response to January Report on Heraldry


On Jan 29, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

> The ASF Board, by Cliff Schmidt, wrote:
>
>> The report on Heraldry mentions a "single large block checkin"
>
> Two large block check-ins in January.  One for python, one for ruby.  
> It seems as if most of the development is happening off-line and being

> committed by proxy.  Paul Querna posted one message raising those 
> concerns.
> There were no replies, and he didn't follow up.
>
>> "almost no activity" on the dev list
>
> Almost none is a tad of a stretch, but certainly nothing like the 
> level of developer discussion that one would want to see.  And that 
> compounds when considered in light of the proxy commits.

I don't think that e-mails copied to another mailing list count as
activity.  By that measure spam would also count.  Until last week,
there had not been a single message dealing with code that was checked
in either prior to or after the checkin.

>
>> and license problems not being responded to "despite requests from 
>> the
> mentors".
>
> That happened back in October.  The last message I see on the subject 
> was from Ted in November, saying: "I sent a note about that to 
> heraldry- dev and heard crickets in response."  On the other hand, the

> Mentors are posting little more than a message a month, each, so there

> isn't much hands-on guidance.

We've also been attempting to get some parties/corporations to respond
via off-list e-mails, which as you can see, have not been particularly
successful either.

>
> Clearly there needs to be some corrective action, and more guidance on

> how an ASF project is supposed to conduct itself.

That's not much of a plan, which is what the board is asking for.     
Paul and I are about at our wit's end on what to do here, besides upping
the number of messages that say "please talk to us on the  
list".    But given that development is happening somewhere else, I  
am doubtful as to whether that would make any difference.   Late  
today a thread started up which clearly shows that some amount of
development is happening elsewhere: <http://mail-archive.com/heraldry- 
dev%40incubator.apache.org/msg00147.html>.    I would definitely  
appreciate concrete suggestions of things to do.

Ted


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