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From: Steve Vinoski <vinoski@iona.com>
Subject: Re: PPMCs [was Re: what are required for contributing to release
 management]
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:41:29 -0400
To: general@incubator.apache.org

+1 to Dan's opinion.

--steve

On Oct 1, 2006, at 11:36 AM, Dan Diephouse wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 28 Sep 06, at 12:59 PM 28 Sep 06, Garrett Rooney wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, PMCs are formed by the board when a project moves to top  
>>>> level
>>>> status.  PPMCs are formed for an incubating project, and exactly  
>>>> how
>>>> that works tends to differ a bit between projects.  Some  
>>>> mentors  start
>>>> off with just the mentors on the PPMC, and then invite project   
>>>> members
>>>> as time goes on (or that's the impression I've gotten).  Others  
>>>> just
>>>> start with the whole group of committers plus the mentors on the  
>>>> PPMC
>>>> (that's what we did with Abdera).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think starting with the mentors is the wisest choice as at  
>>> that  point any committers can be brought aboard if deemed fit.  
>>> So that  can support both models as all committers can be brought  
>>> aboard if  it fits, or over time if more suitable. I was also  
>>> confused about  this as I heard one thing from Noel and one thing  
>>> from Jim, but the  mentors deciding seems sensible as projects  
>>> can be dealt with on a  case by case basis. I don't believe  
>>> committers should automatically  be made (P)PMC members as to me  
>>> it's a different level of  understanding and commitment.
>>>
>>
>>     http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
>
> I assume you're referring to this sentence:
>
> "Initially, it is composed of the Podling's mentors and initial  
> committers."
>
> I have also found some threads which indicate that all committers  
> should be added [1][2]. I want to know here - who is wrong? The  
> documentation? Or the previous incubated projects who didn't add  
> all the initial committers? There is also the following sentence  
> which adds some doubt that the above is the official policy:
>
> "The PPMC is directly responsible for the oversight of the podling  
> and it also decides who to add as a PPMC member."
>
> While this could be referrering to post PPMC formation, it isn't  
> clear.  I will happily make a patch for the documentation to make  
> things more clear if there is consensus.
>
> <opinion>
> I am pretty philosophically against making every committer PPMC  
> members. Apache is meritocracy based and IMO it makes much more  
> sense to start with the mentors on the PPMC and have committers  
> voted on based on their leadership. There may be many people on the  
> incubation proposal or who have committed code to a project in the  
> past, but an additional level of leadership is needed [3]. Not  
> everyone may have the necessary leadership skills, and to  
> presuppose they do because they have contributed good code, is IMO,  
> a mistake.
> </opinion>
>
> Cheerz,
> - Dan
>
> 1. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/ 
> 200312.mbox/%3C3FD9F8C4.5090404@apache.org%3E
> 2. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/ 
> 200603.mbox/%3c44162B45.2090701@rowe-clan.net%3e
> 3. See Project Management Committee section here http:// 
> www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#structure
>
> -- 
> Dan Diephouse
> (616) 971-2053
> Envoi Solutions LLC
> http://netzooid.com
>
>
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