Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 79014 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 23:17:36 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 10 Oct 2006 23:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 44483 invoked by uid 500); 10 Oct 2006 23:17:30 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 44306 invoked by uid 500); 10 Oct 2006 23:17:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 44133 invoked by uid 99); 10 Oct 2006 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:17:27 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.42.249] (HELO nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com) (192.18.42.249) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:17:24 -0700 Received: from d1-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.39.119]) by nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k9ANH3h9007210 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-09.sun.com by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0J6Y00G010LX9M00@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for general@incubator.apache.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-6-172-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.172.77]) by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0J6Y008RZ0O9PIC0@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:57:24 -0700 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: [doc] "How to add a PPMC member" In-reply-to: Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: jta@bristowhill.com Message-id: <4E33FE2A-0D8D-4997-9629-8EDE5A63B2F8@SUN.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary=Apple-Mail-52--325864594; micalg=sha1 References: <27172.66.194.95.2.1160507406.squirrel@bristowhill.com> <23926.66.194.95.2.1160512465.squirrel@bristowhill.com> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-52--325864594 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed It seems to me that there is no reason for the PPMC to be official, since they have no power to actually release anything (which puts Apache at legal risk). It's the Incubator PMC that authorizes releases. "All the PPMC does" is to exercise podling oversight, which should not legally encumber Apache. Craig On Oct 10, 2006, at 2:16 PM, robert burrell donkin wrote: > On 10/10/06, Jean T. Anderson wrote: >> > On 10/10/06, Craig L Russell wrote: >> >> Hi Jean, >> >> >> >> Your suggestion looks sound to me. >> > >> > +1 >> > >> >> > Some clarifications are needed on the PPMC page, including: >> >> > - the PPMC has no legal standing, so no need for board >> notification >> > >> > i'm not sure about this. roy seems very convinced that PPMCs are >> > official committees. IMO this policy seems reasonable but it's not >> > publically written down anywhere and a little more ceremony and >> > documentation would be required before i find this convincing in >> > practice. may be necessary to go through the records... >> >> If PPMCs have official status, then wouldn't new additions require >> board >> approval? > > yes but probably only an ack would be required (since it would be > within the powers delegated by the charter). but AIUI even this isn't > happening ATM. IMO the current ceremony associated is not sufficient > if they are committees. > > IMO their status urgently needs to be sorted out > >> >> > - membership on the PPMC does not guarantee membership on >> the PMC >> >> > when the podling graduates >> > >> > IMHO in theory, this is a matter for the board which they >> delegate to >> > the incubator PMC. in practice i think that the PPMC will become >> the >> > PMC. >> >> But a PPMC member shouldn't count on that. When a podling >> graduates to a >> TLP, the board will need to approve the PMC list, right? > > yes > >> And if a podling >> graduates into a subproject of a TLP, it is up to that TLP's PMC >> to invite >> members to become apart of it. > > yes > >> > what would be very useful are some guides about what a PMC is >> and what >> > it isn't. something along the lines that the pmc should only act >> in an >> > official capacity when that's absolutely required which is mostly >> > process stuff. didn't come up with a form of wording that i found >> > satisfactory. be very happy if docathoners came up with suitable >> > content :-) >> >> how much of the general PMC wording is covered by (or needs to be >> tweaked >> in) http://www.apache.org/dev/#pmc ? > > it's a bit of a mish-mash of tips and process > > i was hoping for something more like guidance to help people new to > apache to understand how PMCs work from organisational, philosophical > and practical perspectives > > - robert > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? 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