Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy)
Message-ID: <4537C3E5.9070208@rowe-clan.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:28:53 -0500
From: "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wrowe@rowe-clan.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060913)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Checkpoint on Harmony  (Re: [discussion] Harmony podling to ask
 for vote for graduation)
References: <45345FA6.6030605@pobox.com>
 <7E88E83D-9934-47DE-9101-79ECEC75FBD4@leosimons.com>
 <45375424.8090804@pobox.com>
In-Reply-To: <45375424.8090804@pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> Oh, what a trip this has been.

:)

> I'd like to ask that those who have asked for a release to assuage
> concerns about community health and capability to please read those 3
> testaments from the mentors (ok, in Leo's case, 71 or so...) and please
> consider withdrawing your request for a release.

I read them, and stayed quiet because it seems that general@ discussion
is going as general@ discussion should go (open honest debate - all the
considerations are raised, etc).

So you'd asked for a graduation consensus, and there really is only one
serious concern - if a release is needed, or not.

I'd like to turn the conversation upside down.  Is there any -reason- to
graduate if a podling is not ready for a release?

IMHO - the only reason to have a project (TLP or subproject, no matter) is
to release code.  Anything prior to a release might be a sandbox, it might
be a podling, it might be a lose alliance of the willing.  Whatever...

I'm asking if there is anything that Incubation places on an effort that
hampers it's efforts - other than fully ASF acknowledged releases?

If not - I'm no longer neutral, but strongly -1 on graduation at this time.
Because, #1 issue, I never want to see a situation that someone claims to
ship "ASF software" which has never been released by the ASF.  And I've
become concerned that this might be one of the motivating factors for any
premature graduation.

That said ... I don't believe anyone is saying Harmony must release it's
entire codebase to graduate.  Any working and usable component or part of
the harness could be released as 0.1 alpha version, the processes followed,
the issues raised and resolved.  With a codebase as large as Harmony, I sure
don't expect the whole ball of wax to be ready, or at the same level of
stability, all at once.

Some shit will only hit the fan at release.  PHP 5.2.0 is a perfect real
world example of this, and seriously is deflating energies at that project.
I'm not saying they are doing anything wrong or blaming any individual, but
it's a very interesting read, and really proves up the point that releases
are not the same as working repositories and collaboration.

So as much as I admire the enthusiasm of the entire community and know that
the vote will disappoint some folks, I'll repeat my root question; how does
incubation status interfere with progress of the Harmony project prior to
its first release?

Bill


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org