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Message-ID: <45238806.60704@wingsofhermes.org>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:08:06 +1000
From: Berin Lautenbach <berin@wingsofhermes.org>
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To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Policy on Initial Committership
References: <NBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPGENAKKAC.noel@devtech.com>
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPGENAKKAC.noel@devtech.com>
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Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>>- We want a podling to generate a community, but the first bit of
>>community they build (the communal decision in a proposal as to who is
>>allowed to commit) we decide we want to ignore.  Even worse, we now
>>don't even want to allow them to even suggest that list - we want to
>>create an arbitrary bureaucratic beast (the PPMC) that will make that
>>decision for them.
> 
> 
> That accusation is false, misleading and insulting.  The Mentors are people
> who both the PMC and incoming community have generally agreed will mentor
> the project.  Not some "arbitrary bureaucratic beast", a comment that I
> consider demeaning to the ASF as a whole, by the way, since the PMC is
> fundamental to ASF process.

And I consider it insulting to have my paragraph quoted back without 
putting in the line that qualified what I meant.

"Before anyone jumps down my throat - I like the PPMC, but it should 
represent the community, not (within reason) enforce a style on the 
community.)"

If the PPMC represents the *community* then I like it.  But (for me) the 
mentors are *not* the community of the podling.  Anything that has the 
mentors alone making decisions - even initially - as to who is in and 
out is (to me) arbitrarily beuracractic.  Alternatively, give the full 
community - as defined in the proposal - of the podling control (through 
the PPMC vehicle) and I think it is goodness.

A good PMC represents the community of the project.  A bad one dictates 
to the community.  Surely the same is true of the PPMC?

Cheers,
	Berin


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