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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@gbiv.com>
Subject Re: [discussion] Harmony podling to ask for vote for graduation
Date Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:02:36 GMT
On Oct 17, 2006, at 7:33 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> How do we know that a group has learned the Apache way of doing  
>> things
>> if they have never voted on a release?  The single most important  
>> action
>> of a TLP should be learned by the committers before they become a  
>> TLP.
>
> Are you looking for us to show that we can vote and deal with
> contention?  We've had that.
>
> I think we've had 20+ votes on various issues on the dev list, which
> mainly were formal records, because we try to always reach consensus.
> We've had to vote in lots of donations, and have had disagreements  
> about
> contributions that were all peacefully resolved with full consensus in
> the end.

Well, that's probably good enough for me.

>>> This is a major project (at 1.3M lines of code and counting) with a
>>> clearly defined deliverable (compatible java SE 5), and we're not  
>>> ready
>>> yet to release something.
>>
>> But are you ready to produce something that can be voted on?
>> Even if it is only a milestone package for developer use only?
>
> I'd prefer not to produce a new kind of artifact just for this  
> purpose,
> but if this really is required, we can certainly hold a vote tomorrow
> about a new snapshot if that demonstrates something more than our
> history has demonstrated.
>
> Will that be sufficient?

It isn't required -- it is just one of the things that some Incubator
PMC members look for before casting a +1 vote on graduation.  I was
just trying to explain why.

>> It doesn't need to result in a released product -- it just needs
>> to make everyone in the project agree and understand how future
>> releases will be made.  Sometimes, shit can lay hidden until an
>> important decision needs to be made, such as who will RM and what
>> should be included.  It is better to let the shit hit the fan now
>> than to assume it will all work out later on.
>
> Ok.  Will you be satisfied with a vote on posting a snapshot?

A snapshot doesn't require any thought.  I'd be happy with a
vote on a release plan, myself, or even just a trial run.
Something to indicate that folks understand what it is that
a PMC is supposed to do in real life (i.e., make releases while
trying avoiding legal trouble).  If that has already been done,
just say so and I am satisfied.

....Roy

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