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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy on Initial Committership
Date Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:28:17 GMT

On 1 Oct 06, at 6:38 PM 1 Oct 06, Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> On Oct 1, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Taken from the "Problem with commit rights on Celtixfire" thread:
>>  - The Incubator PMC sets the Mentors, who form the initial PPMC
>>  - The PPMC (Mentors) elects additional PPMC members
>>  - The PPMC elects Committers
>> This also implies changing the proposal's initial committers list to
>> something suggestive not binding, allowing the the Mentors review  
>> and vote
>> on comitters.
> -1.  Of the people participating in a new project, the Mentors are the
> least capable of selecting a PPMC.

I don't think that's true. At least not in the case of CXF. I know  
both code bases reasonably well as a casual user and I know for  
example that Dan and Dan are very active and would have the knowledge  
to bring other PPMC members aboard. Dan and Dan were the first people  
I asked to be added to the PPMC so discussions could be started  
regarding brining in as many other developers who were known to be  
committed to the project. So your argument here is not accurate in  

> They generally know nothing about
> the code or the community, but rather know how to get things done at
> Apache.  The Incubator PMC is even less able than that when it comes
> to selecting Mentors in the first place.
> The people listed in the proposal as committers are the PPMC.  If some
> project allows too many people to jump on the proposal at the  
> beginning
> in order to make the proposal look better to Apache, then they are  
> stuck
> with the results.  Don't like that answer?  Then dissolve the podling
> and start over.  Have committers that haven't bothered to contribute?
> Then vote them off the island, just like a real PMC.  Truth in  
> advertising
> demands that you follow the process as described in the proposal and
> use the Apache mailing lists for all project discussions.
> ....Roy
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