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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Podling Release Requirement (WAS: Re: [VOTE] Graduate Felix to TLP status)
Date Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:59:09 GMT

On Sep 13, 2006, at 10:24 AM, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 9/13/06, Alex Karasulu <aok123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> J Aaron Farr wrote:
>> > On 9/13/06, Justin Erenkrantz <justin@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
>> >> On 9/12/06, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> wrote:
>> >> > As Leo pointed out, 'codebase quality' is not a graduation  
>> criteria.
>> >> And
>> >> > (hopefully) with Upayvira as the initial PMC Chair, I am not  
>> worried
>> >> that the
>> >> > PMC will overlook release requirements. If ASF Members feel  
>> that to
>> >> be a
>> >> > concern, they are both free to monitor and participate in the  
>> PMC work.
>> >>
>> >> My concern has nothing to do with 'codebase quality', but  
>> asking for a
>> >> demonstration that the Felix community understands how to  
>> conduct a
>> >> release that meets the ASF's criteria.
>> >>
>> >> If the community produces a release that is perfect on first shot,
>> >> great - they're truly ready to graduate.  If not, well, then,  
>> they'll
>> >> learn from those mistakes and once they can produce a release that
>> >> meets our criteria, then they'll be ready to graduate.
>> >>
>> >> Remember that a major task for a TLP is conducting a release.
>> >> Therefore, it's reasonable for the Incubator PMC to ask for  
>> proof that
>> >> they will execute that task successfully rather than taking it on
>> >> blind faith.  -- justin
>> >
>> > And I'm fine with that.  I think it's a good idea for Incubating
>> > projects to do at least one release before graduating.
>> >
>> > My concerns are:
>> >
>> > 1) The policy regarding podling releases has never been explicit  
>> and
>> > always been conflicting
>
> the formal policy
> (http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/ 
> Incubation_Policy.html#Releases)
> isn't too bad (though i have tidied up the verbage surrounding it
> recently).
>
> the sentiment towards releases has definitely changed as we've leant
> more about the process. the PMC is now agnostic rather than
> antagonistics.
>
>> Originally we (the mentors) and even Noel had told Felix not to worry
>> about a release within the incubator:
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-felix-dev/ 
>> 200604.mbox/%3cNBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPAEIPHMAC.noel@devtech.com%3e
>>
>> So both mentors and the Incubator PMC Chair told these folks that a
>> release was not the primary objective for graduation.  We explicitly
>> told them *NOT* to worry about a release until after graduation.  And
>> graduation, we thought, was right around the corner.
>
> i agree that releases should not be a primary objective for  
> graduation.

+1
>
> IMO the question is not about performing a release (which is high
> ceremony) but about  knowing how to perform a release that complies
> with ASF policy.

+1
>
> since we started checking releases in detail, it's become clear that
> most projects struggle to create a compliant release at the first
> attempt. nearly every first attempt checked turns out not be
> compliant. i didn't expect this (since the rules are really pretty
> simple).

I only slightly beg to differ over Robert's characterization of the  
Apache release rules as "simple". Not.

>
>> > 2) Let's not (again) fall into the trap of changing the  
>> requirements
>> > of graduation (or entry for that matter) on a vote thread
>> >
>> > So could we move these discussions to a new thread?
>>
>> Yeah good idea.  Let's start off by discussing whether we make at  
>> least
>> one incubator release a requirement for graduation?  I think if we're
>> going to hold it as a blocker before graduation we must make it a  
>> rule
>> to be absolutely clear.
>
> i do not think that having made a release should be a requirement;

+1
>
> personally speaking, i would not support the gradudation any project
> that has not demonstrated that they understand the apache releases
> policy. doing this is much easier and quicker than creating a proper
> release. just nominate a release manager and post a compliant example
> to the people.apache.org webspace using the current code base so that
> it can be checked.

Having  struggled through the release process outside the incubator,  
I can attest to the value that the incubator PMC brings to the  
process. I'd support changing the incubator process to encourage  
"what Robert said". That is, as a requirement (recommendation?) for  
graduation, have the podling nominate a release manager, have her  
build a candidate release that  conforms to Apache policy, and post  
it for review.

Craig


>
> - robert
>
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Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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