Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 94363 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2006 05:30:15 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 11 Aug 2006 05:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 60080 invoked by uid 500); 11 Aug 2006 05:30:15 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 59626 invoked by uid 500); 11 Aug 2006 05:30:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 59615 invoked by uid 99); 11 Aug 2006 05:30:13 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:30:13 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests= X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [207.155.252.72] (HELO thunderer.cnchost.com) (207.155.252.72) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:30:04 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (unknown [12.25.178.230]) (as wrowe@rowe-clan.net) by thunderer.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost(2.54) Relay) with ESMTP id 2259BC3E for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44DC1591.3060902@rowe-clan.net> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:28:49 -0700 From: "William A. Rowe, Jr." User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: [Fwd: Hats and Ethics] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070703030402090609090902" X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --------------070703030402090609090902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted the following observations to members@, and heard no negative feedback. I'd like to begin a dialog about what such a statement of ethics should contain. Unfortunately, it's been pointed out that noise on general@i.a.o can be very confusing to new participants; when you see every point in the evolution of a policy, but focus on a earlier 'revision', it's easy to lose the end result of the dialog. Eric pointed out this 'topic' generally belongs to incubator's charter at the moment, but I'd suggest we conduct a dialog on community@ (which is open to all members/committers and is archived) to come to a conclusion on an ethics statement... but I need a vote from the incubator committee that such a statement is really needed to help guide new committers, and seasoned committers. Can I hear i.a.o's vote to begin an i.o.a dialog on committers and bring back a finished draft to this list? Mine is +1, obviously. Bill --------------070703030402090609090902 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Hats and Ethics" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Hats and Ethics" X-Account-Key: account5 Return-Path: Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [209.237.227.199]) by intrepid.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost(3.3) MX) with SMTP id 8029568A58 for ; Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 88441 invoked by uid 500); 8 Aug 2006 11:51:04 -0000 Mailing-List: contact members-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: members@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list members@apache.org Received: (qmail 88432 invoked by uid 99); 8 Aug 2006 11:51:04 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:51:04 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests= X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [207.155.252.112] (HELO leander.cnchost.com) (207.155.252.112) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:51:03 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (unknown [12.25.178.130]) (as wrowe@rowe-clan.net) by leander.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost(2.54) Relay) with ESMTP id 4059A341A for ; Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44D8343A.4060300@rowe-clan.net> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:50:34 -0500 From: "William A. Rowe, Jr." User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060614) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: members@apache.org Subject: Hats and Ethics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-MFData: [v2.3 t0,124104] Fellow members, if all you saw was the subject, don't freak out :) I'm not raising any concern about the membership. Something that's occurred to me, and that we see more and more in the incubator, is the number of "corporate participants". In and of itself there's absolutely nothing sinister about such an individual offering great patches (or docs contributions or support etc etc). But for those new to open source, it seems there is a chasm for such newcomers in understanding their relationship to the project versus their relationship to their employeer/products/propritary technologies. Most of the time we end up working through this on an individual basis, which isn't a really effective use of all the mentors time, if we could bring them up to speed more quickly. My personal view is that to contribute (code/docs/community) requires nothing of the contributor/committer except to bring things to the table and not undermine the project. It doesn't matter if it's their day job, their contribution is for the benefit of their employer or their own itch. But my view of project committees is that once someone commits to becoming a manager of the project, part of the PMC, they leave their employer at the door and act in the interest of the *project* first. If they can't do that, the PMC member recuses themself from the issue at hand, or at an impasse, they recuse themself from the committee. This doesn't mean they are required to be on a PMC forever, or even a day longer than they work for their company who's interested in the project. Simply that as long as they participate in project "X", they work in the interest of the reputation of the Foundation and project "X", even before their employer, with respect to their project. That means that private conversations on project "X" are treated with confidence, etc etc. (And of course, this goes for doubly so for membership in the foundation itself, and respect for the privacy of communications on *this* list etc.) It's really no different than being on two boards of directors, one doesn't reveal the confidential/internal dealings of one of their companies to the other, even if that would have a negative impact of withholding such information. Many here found open source before our companies even noticed its existence, so it seems to me this is second nature to most everyone of the membership. So first, a sanity check; do others feel similarly about the ethics of those participating in a project management committee? And second, how do we record that, so that new contributors coming into the incubator feel secure knowing where they are hanging their hat, and if they are actually interested and willing to abide by the ethical restrictions that being on the PMC would impose on them? Third, how do we come to a statement on this? My thought is that this would be another good item to task a "community" committee with drafting. (With full review and feedback loop of the membership, of course.) It's a good example why "diversity" etc are too narrowly focused, and why "community" is a pretty darned good name for a committee to deal with the entire breadth of people-issues. Finally - and if the membership entirely buys into the statement of ethics that is arrived at - how do we feel about modifying the CLA to reflect the acceptance of the statement of ethics? (Yes - this would intersect with legal, but I trust Cliff will chime in as a member long before it even approaches the point of legal review.) Various failures over the years in treating this list in confidence make it pretty clear that if we don't always 'get it', or remember it, then we can be sure our brand new participants sure won't without some education. And w/o that education, we will keep needing to put out fires and playing catchup, after the fact. Feedbacks please? Bill --------------070703030402090609090902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org --------------070703030402090609090902--