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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:31:00 +0100
From: Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk>
Organization: Odoko Ltd
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To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Wicket again (was Re: incubation process for open development
 open source projects)
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Igor Vaynberg wrote:
> pardon me for being so ignorant, but all i know of apache is what i read
> online and what i have observed from this list.

That is fair enough - we all start somewhere.

> it seems to me that there are a few recurring concerns about these items,
> even in the short period that i have been subscribed.
> 
> the incubation, the releases, and the user lists - and the general feeling
> toward projects that are in the incubator.
> 
> here are a few snippets that cast a lot of doubt on where things actually
> stand:
> 
>> Jeremy Hughes wrote:
>> Then, in its README Axis2 should make very clear which function relies
>> on Woden and that this function isn't production ready because it is
>> reliant on an incubator podling.
> 
> statements like these are always answered by stating that incubation does
> not reflect on code quality or whether or not a project is production ready
> - but the general negative sentiment is clearly there even if not true in
> the eyes of apache folks. and it comes up often.

This is one fact (the possibility of misinterpretation of the term
'incubating') that Wicket would need to face head on. Make sure it is
clearly documented up front the code maturity level that Wicket has, and
that incubation refers to the process of joining Apache, and is not a
statement about the quality, or otherwise, of the code itself.

Of course, if it makes life easier, you could make me a committer, and
I'm sure I could make sure that your code isn't production ready :-)

> here is another example.
> 
>> Noel J. Bergman
>> Most users should not be using Incubator code.  Only those who are
> committed
>> and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
>> become an ASF project.
> 
>> Remember that most people don't believe that Incubator projects should
>> even have a user@ list, only a dev@ list.

My suspicion there is that Noel is being somewhat idealistic in that
sentiment. Especially given the number of incubating projects that do
have user lists!

> where does this leave us?

> so i guess what i would like to confirm is the following:
> 
> a) we will have a user list in the incubator and our users will not be
> discouraged from joining it

That seems fair enough to me. Hopefully others (particularly Noel) will
chime in.

> b) if we have a final release ready even though we were in the incubator
> for a short time ( lets say a month ) it will not be blocked just because of
> its timeframe.

So long as the other criteria that are required in order to do a release
are met, I do not see any problem with that.

In this case, the criteria are objective ones, such as: all contributor
CLAs have been received by ASF; licenses are correctly placed on all
source code, license files (NOTICES.txt, LICENSE.txt) are correctly
placed within the release file, etc, etc. Nothing that should be too
hard to manage (esp as I'd intend to do most of the CLA gathering before
actually shifting to Apache - without doing so you'd have committers
without commit access to your codebase, which really wouldn't work)

Hopefully that is clearer still?

Regards, Upayavira

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