From general-return-10395-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Thu Aug 10 01:23:43 2006 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 16342 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2006 01:23:41 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 10 Aug 2006 01:23:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 35338 invoked by uid 500); 10 Aug 2006 01:23:38 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 35131 invoked by uid 500); 10 Aug 2006 01:23:38 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 35120 invoked by uid 99); 10 Aug 2006 01:23:38 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:23:38 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.42.249] (HELO nwkea-pix-1.sun.com) (192.18.42.249) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:23:37 -0700 Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k7A1NG1J004059 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2006 18:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J3R00H01CN7MJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for general@incubator.apache.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-6-172-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.172.77]) by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J3R00AVID6RBV30@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:23:12 -0700 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: IRC Channel? In-reply-to: <44DA8693.2010106@rowe-clan.net> Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Message-id: <7169DFCA-FDD8-465A-ABCB-9430F941EFD9@SUN.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary=Apple-Mail-132-772134174; micalg=sha1 References: <000f01c6bc06$20698610$1200080a@kepler> <7BE4F32C-0283-4350-AFB9-5FF2E79759FC@SUN.com> <44DA8693.2010106@rowe-clan.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-132-772134174 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, On Aug 9, 2006, at 6:06 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: > Craig L Russell wrote: >> Has anyone ever considered making IRC chats available (on some >> basis) as >> an Apache archive? Seems that Apache (myself included) doesn't >> like IRC >> so much because it is not available to those of us who because of >> time >> zone or other reasons can't attend. > > No - mostly because IRC CANNOT BE USED to make project decisions. I understand and agree. > > It's lovely for beating down a problem, kicking around ideas, but > those > ideas MUST COME BACK TO dev@. Decisions themselves must be made on > dev@. Sure, but lots of discussion on dev@ doesn't result in a decision either. > > It's the responsibility of the project participants to grab any useful > log thread, forward it on to the dev@ list to get people thinking and > voting. I don't think that even 5% of the dev@ discussion is decision-making, voting, or anything more than chat. > > Automatically capturing IRC logs undermines this responsibility and > harms > the project (for exactly the reasons you point out above). I'm not sure what part of capturing IRC logs undermines anything. Perhaps what I'm suggesting is that IRC can be more useful if there were some tool that the participants could use to summarize the discussion. Given that everyone knows that IRC is not a decision- making tool but a communications tool. If the state of the art is that someone on IRC has to take responsibility to log the chat and people by nature are lazy (Malthus, anyone?) it's more likely than not that IRC chats won't be logged. Wicket excluded. How do they do this? Craig > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? 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