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From Carl Trieloff <cctriel...@redhat.com>
Subject Re: Accept Glasgow into Incubator - Spec Terms
Date Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:33:44 GMT
The ASF does not recognize corporate members;


Incorrect - Apace has a CCLA, and requires your employer to sign it

 From icla "

For the purposes of this definition,
   "control" means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the
   direction or management of such entity, whether by contract or
   otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the
   outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such entity."

and from ccla "
This version of the Agreement allows an entity (the "Corporation") to
   submit Contributions to the Foundation, to authorize Contributions 
   submitted by its designated employees to the Foundation, and to grant 
   copyright and patent licenses thereto."


...

 all of our contributions are
measured on an individual basis and individual merit

correct.

This mail seems to imply that Apache does not require employer to sign
the CCLA, however I have first had experience that the ASF does require 
this.
It seems that the objection is that I chose to be up-front write this 
down, even
though the practice is the same at Apache. Without the CCLA there would 
no patient and
copyright grants if you are not self employed and just about every employer
would have claims on Apache code. Thus from a IP perspective, you have to
recognize the employer. Key point - contributions - individual ICLA. IP 
- need employer
CCLA.

Hope that clears it up, regards
Carl.



William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> I'm sorry, but respectfully -1 this proposal as written.  My specific objection
> is to the language below, I don't see anything otherwise objectionable in the
> proposal.
>
> The ASF does not recognize corporate members; all of our contributions are
> measured on an individual basis and individual merit.
>
> This proposal under the "Mechanisms for Feedback" and ultimate participation
> by the appropriate parties sends us down entirely the wrong track and conveys
> the wrong message for an ASF project.
>
> I have no objection to that standards committee growing more corporate members.
> But to the extent that ASF contributors offer productive growth and formative
> input into the specification, the way this section is phrased is not acceptable.
> If the contributor wish, and if under these terms their contributions merits
> participation, that contributor should either lead the ASF's direct involvement
> as the ASF spec liason (much as we've done within the JCP) or as an individual
> contributor.
>
> The specific statement "In the same spirit of Apache, if an individual has shown
> understanding of the project and substantive contribution to the specification,
> a vote based on technical merit and understanding of the goals of the work can
> be initiated to have that parties Employer join the specification working
> group."
>
> is an Oxymoron.
>
> This section of the proposal below is entirely corporate-oriented, and that
> is not what the ASF does.  If this can be addressed, my opinion of this effort
> is otherwise without issues.  One alternative is to modify this as I hint at
> above.  The other alternative is to determine the specific standards body first
> and vote participation up or down based on the body selected.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Cliff Schmidt wrote:
>   
>> I believe all open questions about the Glasgow proposal (originally
>> submitted as "Blaze") have now been addressed enough to call a vote
>> for accepting the project for incubation.
>>     
>
> "a.) In the same way anyone can issue a JIRA on any Apache project having signed
> the Apache CLA, anyone can issue a “JIRA” to the specification working group
> through the RLA (Reviewer License Agreement). This agreement provides a license
> to that IP so that the specification team can incorporate it and the
> specifaction as they like and the specifications can remain entirely open and
> royalty free. b.) In the same spirit of Apache, if an individual has shown
> understanding of the project and substantive contribution to the specification,
> a vote based on technical merit and understanding of the goals of the work can
> be initiated to have that parties Employer join the specification working group.
> On such acceptance the employer is required to sign an agreement to make sure
> that employer also grants the ongoing and consistent licenses to the work as
> posted in specifications.
>
> The Reviewer License Agreement (RLA) can be viewed from the AMQP specification
> page of any of the members as listed above."
>
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>
>   


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