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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: [policy] incubating projects and maven repositories v1.0
Date Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:02:53 GMT

On 30 Aug 06, at 7:53 PM 30 Aug 06, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

> Jason,
> Is it rocket science to add a new repo location in pom.xml? *Any*
> maven newbie learns *very* quickly how to add a new repo. Are you
> stating that *IF* the artifacts are not in the central repo they won't
> find it and won't know how to use it?

As a force of habit most Maven users, particularly those coming from  
Maven 1.x, assume all open source artifacts are in the central  
repository. And in most cases for Maven 2.x all artifact required are  
placed in the central repository.

It would be an unnecessary inconvenience. If the goal is to raise  
awareness that it is from the incubator then it can be done with the  
version. It could even be

1.0-apache-incubator-foo (1)

As I think that would be preferable to users and that is abundantly  
clear I think.

> The least anyone will need to
> know is the artifact id and version id and they find this when they
> browse a project's pages, are you stating that a user will never look
> at anyone's web site or download area and will *ONLY* look at ibiblio
> repo and decide to use a project?

The whole point of Maven is to make this easy for users and not have  
to look at a project's site. Maven users expect what they need to be  
in the central repository as shown by the many threads when users go  
to use Sun JARs and we don't have them in the central repository.

> If they do indeed look, isn't it
> trivial to add instructions on adding info on how to add the
> incubation repo? Where's the problem?

A lot of times people actually go to the central repository to find  
the artifact's groupId and artifactId. They don't go to project  
websites, they go to the authority which is the central repository.

If the goal here is user awareness then I think using an version like  
(1) supports this end to a great extent while being more convenient  
for the average Maven user.

> -- dims
> On 8/30/06, Jason van Zyl <> wrote:
>> On 30 Aug 06, at 1:48 PM 30 Aug 06, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>> > On 8/30/06, Dan Diephouse <> wrote:
>> >> policy, so I see those as in conflict right now. So I want to  
>> know on
>> >> what grounds the incubator can prevent me from requesting that  
>> some
>> >> incubating jars from being uploaded to ibiblio.
>> >
>> > Common decency?  If we (as the project owners) ask those  
>> artifacts not
>> > to be posted, then they shouldn't be posted as a matter of  
>> courtesy.
>> It just means that we have to start watching for requests coming from
>> users to put artifacts in the repository. Effectively you are asking
>> us to deny the terms of redistribution stated in our license are you
>> not?
>> We could watch for requests going into Ibiblio, but we can't prevent
>> someone else from putting in a repository that they might use.
>> What is going to happen is that people are going to want to use these
>> artifacts and they will want to rsync Ibiblio, which many people do,
>> and then attempt to rsync  the incubator repository. We are just
>> going to try and circumvent a path that we cannot fully block off.
>> I don't see what is not clear with *every* incubator artifact being
>> marked with a version that has "incubator" in it. Plus the reports
>> that can be generated give a clear view to users what they are
>> consuming.
>> I read this:
>> general&m=115440663222532&w=2
>> and to be frank (4) is somewhat paradoxical to me. You want an
>> incubator project to thrive, and grow while we are tacitly, yet
>> actively, discouraging their use? I think we should let people use
>> their common sense to protect themselves.
>> What is being envisioned here as the worst case scenario of using an
>> incubator artifact for a failed incubator project? The mail says
>> protect the user, but from what?
>> I'm not going to discourage the use of a project I'm mentoring and
>> fully support. I'm going to get everyone on the planet I can to use
>> it as fast and as widely as possible.
>> > -- justin
>> >
>> >  
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>> Jason van Zyl
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> -- 
> Davanum Srinivas : (Oxygen for Web Service  
> Developers)
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Jason van Zyl

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