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From Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>
Subject Re: IRC Channel?
Date Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:56:15 GMT

On 9 Aug 06, at 9:06 PM 9 Aug 06, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

> Craig L Russell wrote:
>> Has anyone ever considered making IRC chats available (on some  
>> basis) as
>> an Apache archive? Seems that Apache (myself included) doesn't  
>> like IRC
>> so much because it is not available to those of us who because of  
>> time
>> zone or other reasons can't attend.
>
> No - mostly because IRC CANNOT BE USED to make project decisions.
>
> It's lovely for beating down a problem, kicking around ideas, but  
> those
> ideas MUST COME BACK TO dev@.  Decisions themselves must be made on  
> dev@.
>
> It's the responsibility of the project participants to grab any useful
> log thread, forward it on to the dev@ list to get people thinking and
> voting.
>
> Automatically capturing IRC logs undermines this responsibility and  
> harms
> the project (for exactly the reasons you point out above).
>

How does automatically capturing the logs undermine anything. It is  
convenient to point at threads of discussion in IRC and even though  
summaries can be provided there's nothing like reading the source  
material. Just as we often summarize threads on dev@maven, it's still  
nice to go back to the archives and read over the messages.

We keep our messages here:

http://dev.rectang.com/logs/codehaus/

And I think they are pretty handy and provide the source material for  
any summaries. Good evidence of how this works in practice is #cxf  
where the XFire and Celtix folks have been chatting about ideas and  
then you see the summary on the mailing list. If you want to go see  
the IRC log in question you can:

http://dev.rectang.com/logs/codehaus/%23cxf/20060809.html

I think accountability is actually promoted by logging the channel  
because if people notice the logs continually growing with no  
corresponding chatter on the mailing lists then you can identify a  
problem. If you the channels aren't logged you're never going to know  
and it probably wouldn't be because a group intentionally trying to  
undermine the standard channels of communication, it would probably  
just be habit. You could point at the log and give a gentle nudge to  
push the discussion to the mailing list.

I personally don't see any downside to logging the channels.


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Jason van Zyl
jason@maven.org




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