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Message-ID: <71235db40607261251lda8ccb2g816b5a03e02ba8de@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:51:35 -0700
From: "Matthias Wessendorf" <matzew@apache.org>
Sender: mwessendorf@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket
In-Reply-To: <ceb609d80607261238m6d4be56n7d3ac5fd18e8542e@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <44C79027.4090506@odoko.co.uk>
	 <1c661f2f0607260904w575eca5ek6325262a6e0c2cef@mail.gmail.com>
	 <5a99335f0607261109s29c5df2apcbe1dc8b968a6d29@mail.gmail.com>
	 <ceb609d80607261238m6d4be56n7d3ac5fd18e8542e@mail.gmail.com>

Eelco,

that would be great; see you there.

Independent from the JSF standpoint, I'd like to give you guys a +1
But, that said, is non-binding.

-Matthias

On 7/26/06, Eelco Hillenius <eelco.hillenius@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Martin. If there would be a way to find ways to interoperate
> without loosing both our strong points, that would be great. We've
> looked into it last year, and concluded it can't really be done based
> on the current JSF specs, largely because Wicket is a non-declarative
> framework. But otoh, we're obviously not the greatest JSF experts, so
> we could always see if it is possible to talk things over while
> enjoying a beer at ApacheCon :) Anything that empowers fellow coders
> must be good.
>
> Eelco
>
>
> On 7/26/06, Martin Marinschek <martin.marinschek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I appreciate this addition to the web-framework competition at the
> > ASF. If you have any interest in interfacing to JSF and Apache
> > MyFaces, I'd be happy to help out.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 7/26/06, Don Brown <donald.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
> > > framework and the community behind it, and this will further
> > > facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
> > > periodically having with Wicket.
> > >
> > > Let me know of any way I can help,
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > On 7/26/06, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expresse=
d a
> > > > desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
> > > >
> > > > I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with i=
ts
> > > > flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
> > > >
> > > > The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> > > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Upayavira
> > > >
> > > > =3D Wicket Proposal =3D
> > > >
> > > > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket proje=
ct
> > > > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Rationale =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bring=
ing
> > > > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is uniqu=
e in
> > > > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due =
to
> > > > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > > > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gai=
ning
> > > > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out=
 and
> > > > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this tren=
d to
> > > > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, a=
nd we
> > > > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with othe=
r
> > > > Apache projects.
> > > >
> > > > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Soft=
ware
> > > > Foundation for several reasons:
> > > >
> > > >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get =
an
> > > > increased visibility and acceptance.
> > > >
> > > >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastruc=
ture
> > > > and legal protection.
> > > >
> > > >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache softwar=
e for
> > > > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > > > togethers etc.
> > > >
> > > >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such=
 as
> > > > Felix or Jetspeed.
> > > >
> > > >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, w=
e
> > > > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bi=
gger.
> > > >
> > > >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering =
an
> > > > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Criteria =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Community =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > > > everyone. It is released
> > > > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage th=
e
> > > > maximum possible adoption by all
> > > > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > > > suggestions and
> > > > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joi=
ned
> > > > as contributors
> > > > since the project's inception in 2004.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Meritocracy =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then=
 it
> > > > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner=
 and
> > > > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited =
to
> > > > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. T=
he
> > > > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jon=
athan
> > > > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > > > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches,=
 then
> > > > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff=
),
> > > > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The projec=
t
> > > > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > > > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Scope of Sub projects =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains se=
veral
> > > > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project =
that
> > > > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which inc=
ludes
> > > > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandb=
ox.
> > > > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dua=
l
> > > > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too l=
arge,
> > > > while still having a place to put interesting components and utilit=
y
> > > > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place w=
here
> > > > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to th=
e
> > > > core project.
> > > >
> > > > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversi=
on
> > > > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer,=
 an
> > > > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used t=
o
> > > > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > > > knowledgeable enough to change.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Features =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > > > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level=
.
> > > > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > > > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and =
form
> > > > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component =
model
> > > > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > > > favorite technology.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Initial Source =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within th=
e
> > > > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Resources to be Created =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > >  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> > > >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> > > >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> > > >  * Confluence Wiki.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Potential Issues =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in orde=
r to
> > > > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > > > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Versions =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the cu=
rrent
> > > > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> > > >
> > > > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure=
, and
> > > > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> > > >
> > > > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and =
1.3
> > > > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that i=
s
> > > > already using the product.
> > > >
> > > > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clear=
ly
> > > > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Package Naming =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point=
, we
> > > > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > > > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > > > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> > > >
> > > > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Other Potential Concerns =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > > > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wick=
et is
> > > > unlikely to fit into this category.
> > > >
> > > > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > > > others, who depend
> > > > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continu=
es on
> > > > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=3D119783&ugn=3Dwicke=
t, where
> > > > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=3D119783&u=
gn=3Dwicket&type=3Dsvn.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Experience with Open Source =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple othe=
r
> > > > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > > > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of th=
e
> > > > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Heterogenous Developers =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of the=
ir
> > > > employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > > > employer.
> > > >
> > > >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startup=
s as
> > > > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writin=
g career.
> > > >
> > > >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > > > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > > > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachs=
cape
> > > > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> > > >
> > > >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus a=
s a
> > > > software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > > > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) a=
nd is
> > > > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its=
 core.
> > > >
> > > >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > > > Teachscape Inc.
> > > >
> > > >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Ar=
chitect.
> > > >
> > > >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > > > Consultant
> > > >
> > > >  * Janne Hietam=E4ki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that als=
o uses
> > > > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> > > >
> > > >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and work=
s for
> > > > EEA as a software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a softw=
are
> > > > engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consulta=
nt.
> > > > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spa=
in,
> > > > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various =
other
> > > > countries.
> > > >
> > > > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informal=
ly -
> > > > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of th=
e
> > > > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site relat=
ed
> > > > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of t=
he
> > > > team has committed code, and may do so.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Reliance on Salaried Developers =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though t=
wo -
> > > > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Mannin=
g) in
> > > > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day j=
obs,
> > > > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while=
 as
> > > > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choos=
e
> > > > Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D Ties to other Apache Products =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code=
 from
> > > > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicke=
t
> > > > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand =3D=3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > > > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on the=
ir
> > > > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > > > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > > > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > > > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > > > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the c=
lub.
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Committers =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > >  * Jonathan Locke
> > > >  * Eelco Hillenius
> > > >  * Johan Compagner
> > > >  * Martijn Dashorst
> > > >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> > > >  * Igor Vaynberg
> > > >  * Gwyn Evans
> > > >  * Matej Knopp
> > > >  * Janne Hietam=E4ki
> > > >  * Ate Douma
> > > >  * Jan Blok
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Proposed Apache Sponsor =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > > Incubator PMC
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Champions =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > >  * Upayavira
> > > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D Mentors =3D=3D
> > > >
> > > >  * Upayavira
> > > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
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--=20
Matthias Wessendorf

further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com

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