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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@gbiv.com>
Subject Re: piling on
Date Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:54:51 GMT
On Jul 19, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

> This piling on behavior seems to have come from the notion that if  
> you get
> on the initial vote, you're in, but otherwise you have to earn
> committership.  And the justification for the first part seemed to  
> be making
> sure that a company could not start with a lot of its own people,  
> and keep
> out existing ASF committers and other interested parties.

I think people just got in the habit and assumed it was policy.

There is nothing wrong with the proposer asking for and accepting
additional committers from the wide world of ASF.  I did that for
Jackrabbit, for example, specifically because I wanted a lot of
experienced ASF folks to help mentor the project (even though I was
the only "official" Mentor).  However, that is significantly different
from any wiki reader being able to add themselves just because they
(or their boss) thinks it might be worth getting in on the ground
floor of a project.

> My long standing proposed solution for this is embedded in my  
> description of
> project startup:
>
>   - bootstrap the PPMC from the PMC (assigning Mentors)
>   - election by the PPMC of project contributors to the PPMC
>   - election by the PPMC of Committers
>
> So the Mentors first task is to formally bring on board the key  
> outside
> players, and then that PPMC elects Committers, both to start and going
> foward.

I think that is okay when you have three Mentors who are currently
active on the proposal.  I think it is a waste of time if they are
not already active, since the proto-PPMC you mention hasn't even
earned that right yet.  Sure, they have the responsibility for it as
delegated by the ASF, but when an existing code base is involved the
only person(s) who really know the community are the ones writing the
proposal. It saves a lot of time for the Incubator PMC to approve
both the proposal and the initial set of committers in one act.

I don't think either method is perfect, so I prefer the one with less
of an entry barrier.

....Roy

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