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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] [UPDATE] CeltiXfire Project Proposal
Date Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:50:59 GMT
Craig L Russell wrote:
> On Jul 18, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> William Rowe's response to him fairly well summed up the issue(s).  I have
>> relatively little concern regarding castigating projects for failings, even
>> if the criticism could be expressed more constructively than acerbically.
>> BUT we do not accept personal attacks, and will not tolerate them on
>> someone's blog anymore than on a mailing list.
> To get very specific, I understand that posting insults on Apache 
> mailing lists is forbidden.
> But are you also saying that we expect him to:
> no longer post insults regarding any topic on bileblog, or
> no longer post insults regarding any Apache project on bileblog, or
> no longer post insults regarding any Apache committer on bileblog, or
> something else?

What part of Noel's post is not clear to you?  On list, on their blog,
in the trade rags, wherever... none of that bears any distinction.

> In other words, what limitations on his freedom of speech are we requiring?

All members have an absolute freedom of speech.  And those that really
exercise it to demean their fellow committers, PMC members, the foundation
as a whole do risk being cut out of their PMC participation.  We have a
very simple metric - are you criticizing the code, the coder's choices,
or engaging in playground character attacks?

If you enjoy the later, be our guest; not as a spokesman of the foundation,
nor probably not as spokesman for your project.  Every PMC member speaks
for their project, every member speaks for the ASF in some small measure.
You can play the "I was wearing my OTHER hat" song, but that is really moot.

Reminds me of the recent decisions that student's posts on their myspace
blogs can (if brought to the attention of the school) carry the same measure
they would if spoken at the school.  Well ... DUH!  You want to admit on such
a public forum you were smoking dope in the school smoking area ... DUH!
You want to threaten or bully a fellow student ... DUH!  It's a public forum
they have posted to, so sure, it's the same thing.

All the ASF members expect of each other is that we are open source coders and
treat each other with a certain level of dignity.  If it would get you thrown
out of your teaching post, or your broadcasting job, or any of hundreds of
similar scenarios for baseless character attacks, then yes; it wouldn't be
tolerated from a PMC member or foundation member, and they would be asked
to move on if they can't come to terms with that concept.

You are welcome to be an open source developer with any views on the world
whatsoever, and voice them widely.  If you disagree on a fundamental level
that developers treat each other with some dignity and debate code not people,
or you disagree with the spirit of the Apache Software License or collaborative
meritocratic development models, there are many better homes for your efforts
than here at the ASF.

We aren't repressing people here, we are asking if they can act like adults,
and if not, we solve the issue.

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